Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal :: Page 33

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wrote:

Guan yu is fine IMO.

he's stronger than people think

Then explain why he still is stronger as people think because in solo the moment he is lined up against someone with hard cc (e.g. or ) he get's stunned and can't clear the wave that effective anymore.

and if he doesn't clear the wave he will get out pushed if he does clear the wave he lost his poke.

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wrote:

Guan yu is fine IMO.

he's stronger than people think

Lol

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I was playing Guan Yu in solo lane yesterday against vamana and vamana was marking me after like level 3....

Also somehow this vamana I was playing against was doing some type of lag skip movement....
I'm not sure how he was doing it but somehow he was like semi-teleporting left and right as if he is the only god in the match lagging....

When I say Vamana Merked me, I mean that he stopped me from clearing waves because he clears them before me and beats my *** to force me to hide under tower.

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wrote:

that's lagg you can still hitt him before the little teleporting happens

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As of 9/9/14 guan has his protection steal back.

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wrote:

As of 9/9/14 guan has his protection steal back.

Indeed. But removed protections from .

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Guan Yu Summary

Guan Yu is currently one of the worst warriors in the game. How, you may ask. Guan had a minor niche in supporting and initiation, but his real strength was his ability to inflict a devastating debuff, on top of buffing his own protections significantly. His burst damage, sustained damage, healing, and CC are all below-average, so when HiRez nerfed his most important skill, Guan Yu quickly became a low-tier god, outclassed in all of his roles and abilities.

He needs a significant buff to return to his former (non-release day) glory.

Problems

Where to start?

is merely an extension of his one, , meaning he has no true passive. Giving him one will be an important step to buffing him, although not completely unnecessary.

suffers from falling off quickly due to the lack of contributions, as well as the pointless armor buff that barely makes a difference. This skill only becomes useful when spammed over and over and over again, allowing him to have some kind of healing. It needs to be changed to be more meaningful, whether by changing the buff or the healing.

is lackluster in all respects, from the damage to the CC to the little mobility it gives. Currently, it's merely a tool to reduce your cooldowns and avoid the occasional dodegable skillshot. That isn't...bad, per se. After all, not every skill has to be stupendously amazing. That said, this skill could use a change. I'm just not sure what.

is lackluster in all respects. The protections shredded are merely 21, the lack of bonus protections means that Guan is incredibly vulnerable while channeling, the damage is lacking, and certainly not worth sitting there for 3 seconds. This, above all his other skills, needs a serious buff.

is Guan's single, genuinely good ability. There are no problems with this ultimate.

Now, finally, one thing that I must emphasize is how boring Guan Yu's playstyle is. Aside from his ultimate, Guan's playstyle, like all Smite gods, can be summarized as "blindly spam skills as soon as they come off cooldown." There is little interactivity or dynamics, just rapid-firing your healing, your dash, and your to decrease their cooldowns, to repeat over and over again. This needs a change, but I doubt HiRez cares.

Strengths and Weaknesses

Guan Yu is currently good at initiation.

Guan Yu is average at team support. He has his buffs and debuffs and healing, but they are nothing compared to the **** ton of CC that other bruisers offer.

Guan Yu WAS good at team support, with a very useful debuff that also helped him do his secondary jobs of healing and doing damage by giving him more protections. He also also very good at countering other bruisers by reducing the protections they built, while capitalizing on their lack of notable penetration.

Guan Yu is terrible at CC, damage, and compared to other bruisers with tankiness, healing and survivability and sustain. His mobility is also not that great. He also lacks burst damage, and even his sustained damage is weak.

Solutions

: See reworks.

: Also see reworks.
- Give it contributions.
- Maybe weaken the heal and give it a buff that isn't useless.

: Give it scaling CC, or a lower cooldown. Maybe have it break free of slows and roots, etc. Or increase dash range. Just make it stand out a bit, basically, other than as the worst dash in the game.

: Revert it to the old stealing-protections-thing. Maybe decrease damage and contributions, but keep its damage on minions.

At Minimum

He needs his old Taolu Assault back.

Passive Rework Ideas

Rework Idea #1

: Guan Yu gains force of will as he takes damage. Each instance of damage he receives charges up his ability, increasing its healing by up to 1.5x after 10 hits. Each stack of Painless grants Guan Yu 1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5/4 protections, scaling at level one + 0.5 for levels 5, 9, 13, 17, and 20.

: Guan Yu's courageous leadership is infectious and, when focused, heals himself and his allies. Healing friendly gods reduces all cooldowns by 2s.

Healing: 60/100/140/180/220 (+40% of your physical power)
Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds

The problem with his old healing was how uninteractive it was. You simply spammed it with no thought whenever you could, and it gave exactly the same amount of benefit in any situation. This rework is intended to give a little more player interactivity into his kit.

With his new passive, Guan Yu gets anywhere from 15 to 40 free protections. This is not an insignificant number. However, healing himself and his allies removes these protections. This creates an interesting mechanic where you want to mitigate damage, but must juggle between doing it by healing or by reducing it with protections.

The added scalings also produce a new dynamic. The high power scalings reward building power, but you can't make the most of your healing without taking a few hits first. Which means you must also build protections. Therefore, a bruiser.

For the most part, you are still going to be spamming it in teamfights for that CDR, but there will be a more dynamic element to the whole thing, which I think is nice. Especially since spamming it will keep you at a permanently weakened state for enemies to take advantage of.

Of course, Guan Yu's base protections and health will be lowered slightly to compensate.

(Note: This change HAS to use the 10 stack limit on Painless, or it would ruin the balance between his passive and his healing. This one's healing's power scalings are also designed around a 1.5x multiplier, not a x2 multiplier.)

Rework Idea #2

Other Rework Ideas

: Guan Yu mounts his charger, gaining a 30% move speed bonus and immunity to slows, roots, and knockups. Clicking will cause Guan Yu to make a spinning slash attack (like the current Cavalry Charge) and dismount, dealing damage and stunning enemies hit. Hard CC will knock him off his horse, causing this ability to go on cooldown. Guan Yu can only mount while out-of-combat, and mounting takes 1.5 seconds.

Damage: 100/150/200/250/300 (+50% of your physical power)
Stun Duration: 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5 seconds
Cooldown: 15/14/13/12/11 seconds.

Note

Guan got a significant buff to his , essentially reverting it to its old state, with the 30 stolen protections. Time will tell if these changes were enough.

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Next god: Nemesis.

Nemesis

Nemesis is a laughable assassin. She is below-average in nearly every respect, from CC, to burst damage, to area damage, to sustained damage, to sustain, to jungle clear, to jungle control, to EVERYTHING except for teamfight utility. And that is just her ultimate, and nothing else.

She has also suffered through a reduction in base stats when she was reclassified as an assassin from a warrior from an assassin, and her shield changed from an one-second-reflect-everything barrier to a actual HP-based shield.

Nemesis, right now, has an odd kit. She used to be based on her abilities, but then when they were nerfed, she focused on her basic attacks by necessity. Now, with both nerfed, she focuses on nothing, but with a lot of untapped potential as both a warrior and an assassin, as both an autoattacker or an ability-based god.

Problems

, while sounding cool in theory, is actually pretty terrible, especially in it's current 9% state. You get to remove about 18 physical power, at most. Hooray. And you get about 18 physical power. Woohoo. It might as well not be a passive.

, as a dash, is great. In all other respects, such as cooldown or damage or any extra effects, it sucks diseased moose wang.

is a laughable version of . It slows for a good amount, but the damage is laughable, the clear speed you get from it is laughable, and it is just so, so bad. It starts to fall off in damage from level 11, FFS.

is an interesting, and honestly not at all bad skill...in theory. In execution, it sucks, with 500 health become amazingly quickly insignificant and the reflect amount is paltry. This skill depends heavily on what kind of Nemesis you want her to be.

is another odd skill. It's a good skill...but very, very countered by , and it lacks counterplay. The most overpowered thing about it is the protections debuff, making you pretty much completely vulnerable no matter who you are playing.

On a general note, Nemesis has the worst scalings AND base damage of ANY god in the game. Hardcore tanks have better contributions than her, and even Artemis has better base damage. I repeat: ARTEMIS, a hyper carry with some of the worst base damage in the game, has better base damage than Nemesis.

Strengths and Weaknesses

What Nemesis is Good At: Being very, very fast. Also has the best debuff in the game. Self-explanatory.

What Nemesis is Okay At: CC, survivability, relatively speaking. She has a good slow, her debuff is also a massive slow, and having some extra health gives you good survivability for an assassin.

What Nemesis is Bad At: Damage, in any form. She just lacks damage, plain and simple. She needs her debuff to do any kind of damage, and even then, anyone else in the vicinity can outdamage her, excluding tanks.

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Here is just my input:

Right now Nemesis is more of a teamfight assassin rather than a 1v1 assassin.

temporarily lowers the damage output of enemy gods.

, although not good for damage, allows her to be extremely mobile and move in and out of teamfights quickly.

is a massive ****ing slow that only blind people could miss, another great tool in teamfights.

, when timed correctly, can cause enemy gods to deal large portions of damage to themselves, although I think the shield health needs to be removed: It should last for a full one second or breaks on hard cc.

is insane, and pretty much makes the enemy god as squishy as a mage. Your team will wreck anyone debuffed through this.

So before you start the rework, I think Nemesis should still stay a teamfight, debuffer "support" assassin.

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She doesn't lack damage imo, just build AS and Crit I guess.
Maybe nerf the slow a bit?
I kinda think she's fine, although her passive is kinda weak...

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Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal

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Problems

Strengths and Weaknesses

Solutions

At Minimum

Passive Rework Ideas

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