Can We Just Remove Teleport to Towers? :: Page 3

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wrote:

Uh, this is definitely off topic, but Ragingstorm said you guys were sisters, yet Ragingstorm in the Ward Up had a male voice, but then Ragingstorm starts talking about hir *** and chest...I am pretty confused. Can you explain?

He's crazy. Don't believe anything he says about me, or himself for that matter, in text form.

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wrote:

Ragingstorm is a transsexual robot.

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Nope, hes just an idiot.

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wrote:

It's really the actives themselves.

Think about it: and are really more of a check against potential attempts to kill you. However, they are balanced around the fact that they are only up every two minutes or so, depending on the rank. Meaning, they're good for countering a single skill. So if you beads out of , it won't be up for when comes around to you ten seconds later. There is counterplay to those actives.

is a bit different however. On junglers, it's perfectly fine since it's necessary for clear efficiency and getting the buff camps down fast.
In the lanes however, it's a push war. The side that can push harder will win out in the end simply due to how towers reduce your experience and gold income now. If one side of the duo lane has and the other doesn't, guess who's going to be sitting under their tower and losing gold? Unless the HoG-less side has in the duo lane for god-knows-why, it's going to be them. In order to avoid this scenario, the tank needs to make up for otherwise poor waveclear.

is even worse for all of the reasons stated by previous posters. If you aren't running it but your opponent is, they get free farm and possibly an opportunity to start breaking your tower in the time it takes you to run back to your lane. Only way to counter it is to use teleport yourself.

The big problem we see here is, the counters are the same actives themselves. You must counter HoG with HoG. Teleport must be countered with Teleport. This isn't a good design, it stagnates the meta, and it diminishes the diversity of playstyle that used to exist before.

You're overrating HoG's push in lane; supports don't get HoG because they'll be outpushed without it. An Athena/Neith lane with HoG is gonna be pushed under tower by a Sobek/Anhur that doesn't have it. That's a winning matchup for the latter group, and no active is going to change that. Most characters can clear so effectively that it doesn't really matter. Any duo lane and pretty much any mid is going to be able to clear without HoG from start to end, hell, ADCs clear better than a lot of mages. An impale and a few autos is just as easy as a tornado and a squall. You can let the creeps get to your tower line and not lose anything, and if the enemy team is contesting hard, they're an easy gank.

It does affect some solo lane match ups, but I don't see how that's a bad thing. Wave clear is going to be an issue if you pick something like Wukong into a mage; it's part of the basic matchup strategy. For bad clear against bad clear, you can strategically pass up HoG, eat a bad early game, then get a free active slot from mid game on, where everyone can clear the wave easily. It's a give and take. HoG is just standard.

HoG is needed to counter HoG only because of objectives. If you try going for a gold fury when the other team's Sobek has two ranks of HoG over your support, you just gave them 1500 gold. I don't think requiring 1 out of a team's 10 active slots to be HoG is that bad though.

TP being required isn't as good, but that's what this thread is about.

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Except you're forgetting that HoG can now be upgraded into FoG. An active that gives you a free stun after you're done with the early game where HoG would've been needed to push the lanes. So you are transitioning an otherwise worthless ability into one that can help you secure kills. But it's the fact you needed HoG to begin with to counter HoG that was bad.

Right now, the current meta looks like this:

+Jungler needs HoG to clear buff camps.
+Duo Tank/Support needs HoG to secure GF/FG, because the jungler will turn his into FoG for ganks.
+At least two players need EoP to ward the jungle.
+The solo needs to not give his opponent free farm after a recall.

Those right there are at least five active slots on your team which must be reserved for specific purposes. Depending on your team's god choices and the makeup of your opponent's team, more might have to be reserved. I'm not looking at just one active slot: I'm looking at several that are forced, and limiting the player's options. For example Blink on tanks can be awesome for initiating, but if they're forced to hold both the HoG and the EoP for the duo lane just to prevent potential snowballng from the jungler or the ranged carry? Not cool.

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wrote:

There's definitely no need for two Eyes on a team. I haven't even seen that set up used at all to be honest. Supports are locked into HoG/Eye, which is kind of annoying, but anyone else getting eye is going to hurt them late game. A few normal wards throughout the game is enough. I could honestly see Eye becoming not necessary even on support soon given that a lot of supports would benefit from a different active and it's not as strong as it used to be. It's still standard for now though.

It's all kind of semantics though. I'd call Beads on the mage just as necessary as HoG on the jungler. You could get away with other actives on a jungler if you really wanted to. There's just no reason since FoG makes it transition into late game anyway. There aren't that many actives, and a few of them are so good that you should almost never pass them up. I don't look at that as being forced into them.

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Solution: Buff every active to also teleport you anywhere you want to go.

Result: Absolute chaos.

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wrote:

Solution: Buff every active to also teleport you anywhere you want to go.

Result: Absolute chaos.

I second this.

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I don't consider Eye necessary on a tank and if I'm dealing with something like Aphrodite I'd rather they get weakening curse tbh. You can still buy consumable wards if you need them that badly. It's a great active but I wouldn't consider it "obvious" or "must-have."

I do agree that TP to towers is too strong/easy, and a must-have for solo lane. I see it picked up by pretty much any mid laner as well if they are the first to be forced out of lane or die. They just buy TP 2 and it's no big. At this point I play solo/mid very conservatively and just try to avoid taking damage so I can hold creeps off my tower without having to buy TP, this way I can use whatever actives I want for mid/late game. Aggressive play has a much worse risk/reward ratio since the likely reward is just getting them to buy the TP active (which isn't much at all since shielded teleport is still good even lategame), whereas you run the risk of being ganked and suffering a serious setback in farm.

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Ward costs add up. The longer a game drags on, the more profitable an Eye becomes. Buy five wards and you've already exceeded the cost of Rank 1 Eye. If you're counterwarding, seven sentry wards add up to the cost of a Rank 3 Eye. An average conquest game goes on for about 30 minutes, sometimes more if neither team can come out the clear winner in a teamfight.

It takes a good amount of wards to have sufficient map vision, and they must be replaced every few minutes. If you had to buy the ward items every time they burnt out, you'd find yourself hemorrhaging lots of gold over the course of a game.

Of course, if you're not playing premades or ranked, I guess all this talk about wards sounds unnecessary, doesn't it?

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Can We Just Remove Teleport to Towers?

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