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Viability of lane freezing?

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Forum » General Discussion » Viability of lane freezing? 11 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HollowsEdge » January 29, 2014 4:41pm | Report
Due to mass ping lately playing from Australia I have found myself playing LoL until my eventual return to Smite and during this time I have come across a tactic called lane freezing! for those of you who don't know lane freezing is tactic used buy mid to higher level players in LoL where they freeze a lane to a advantageous position buy only last hitting enemy minions.

My question is how viable would it be in Smite? My thoughts about it is that it would be very difficult to achieve unless you are playing a heavy pusher like Ao Kuang and timed you're tornado for when the friendly minion wave was nearly wiped! I also think the fact that you do not need to last hit minions would make this difficult as most casual players don't care too much bout last hits!

So what do you guys think?
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Ghraf » January 29, 2014 5:01pm | Report
That is basically how Dota 2 is played. There it's okay to sit in your tower and only last hit, because you only gain gold by last hitting and there's no experience penalty.

It's different here in Smite because of the tower penalty and it's encouraged to be aggressive in lane rather than turtle. The way exp and gold mechanics are in Smite doesn't require last hitting either. So, it would be pretty pointless here, whereas it's common practice in other MOBAs.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HollowsEdge » January 29, 2014 5:05pm | Report
yehh I had that feeling. I know in smite its more beneficial to push you're lane to the enemy tower to deny gold the main down side to that however was being highly vulnerable to ganks so that's what got me thinking!
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » January 29, 2014 5:07pm | Report
It's less viable in smite, since there is no targetting system. Ideally, it's a smart idea, because it forces a losing opponent to leave his tower and risk dying. However, two problems present itself here.

1) You get half gold for simply being near them. You do not NEED to last hit, you simply face a 50% disadvantage instead of a 100% disadvantage from being pushed to tower.

2) You cannot choose which minion to hit as easily, since this is all a collision based game, not a targetting one. This means it's hard for you to actually last hit minions without trying to kill them all at the same time.

Since it's hard to freeze, AND they don't really face a giant penalty from lane freezing vs pushing, it's usually better to push. Until people get really good at it. Freezing stops you from being caught pushed up too far and being ganked, but it's 'hella' easy to juke in a purely skillshot game, and pushing is a better denial tactic.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HollowsEdge » January 29, 2014 5:23pm | Report
Ahhh ok sweet! I suppose it would be a more situational tactic as you said to bait someone out of a tower for a gank or a kill.

You also help answer my other question which was: would making last hitting minions be the only source of gold from them break Smite? the answer is a very clear yes...yes it would horribly! lol
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by BestMinionEver » January 30, 2014 2:15am | Report
This is something I see tons of ppl do completely wrong and it makes me sick! The most important thing about MOBAs are to deny the enemy team farm.

If you are playing either solo or duo (can be done in mid as well, but you are easy to gank if you do it) and your lane is ahead, or if you have poked the enemy team down so much that if they come close to you they are going to die.

Then DO NOT push the lane! let the minions fight and kill each other.

As solo you stand behind the enemy archers (do not last hit ****, just stand there and get the exp and gold from you minions killing the enemy minions) this forces the enemy solo laner out of range to earn both exp and gold. Where you to push the lane he would just get reduced exp and the tower would steal some gold from him.

As duo lane the support does what the solo lane does and the adc simply last hits, this will most of the time deny about 3-4 creeps which is HUGE. It is basically putting you a wave ahead of the enemy lane.

It is so sad watching a Ymir wasting mana on a lane that does not need to be pushed :P
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Ghraf » January 30, 2014 3:16am | Report
BestMinionEver wrote:

This is something I see tons of ppl do completely wrong and it makes me sick! The most important thing about MOBAs are to deny the enemy team farm.

If you are playing either solo or duo (can be done in mid as well, but you are easy to gank if you do it) and your lane is ahead, or if you have poked the enemy team down so much that if they come close to you they are going to die.

Then DO NOT push the lane! let the minions fight and kill each other.

As solo you stand behind the enemy archers (do not last hit ****, just stand there and get the exp and gold from you minions killing the enemy minions) this forces the enemy solo laner out of range to earn both exp and gold. Where you to push the lane he would just get reduced exp and the tower would steal some gold from him.

As duo lane the support does what the solo lane does and the adc simply last hits, this will most of the time deny about 3-4 creeps which is HUGE. It is basically putting you a wave ahead of the enemy lane.

It is so sad watching a Ymir wasting mana on a lane that does not need to be pushed :P


Except pushing someone into their tower is the most effective way of denying gold and exp since they get a direct penalty from it, rather than just sitting and watching your creeps fight while they get the "normal" amount and you don't get ahead because you aren't last hitting.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by BestMinionEver » January 30, 2014 3:22am | Report
Ghraf wrote:



Except pushing someone into their tower is the most effective way of denying gold and exp since they get a direct penalty from it, rather than just sitting and watching your creeps fight while they get the "normal" amount and you don't get ahead because you aren't last hitting.


?? you are zoning them out so that they are out of range to get any exp or gold.

if you push it into the tower they get just reduced exp and they lose gold from the creeps that the tower hits (so you can easily kill 3-4 creeps while the tower kills the other 2-3 creeps).

Edit:
The whole idea about zoning/freezing a lane is that you force the enemy player to lose exp and gold while you gain exp and gold.

So if you can force the enemy out of the area where they get exp and gold from minions dying you should do that and then let the enemy minions kill your minions (that way for each minion the enemy minions kill you denied them that exp and gold). If you just kill the enemy minion wave with Impale or whatnot the enemy minions will kill 0 of your minions that then will go into their tower where the enemy can kill them without being in danger (sure they get reduced gold and exp, but the do get gold and exp). So why would you give them some gold and exp when you can deny them everything?
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Ghraf » January 30, 2014 4:22am | Report
BestMinionEver wrote:



?? you are zoning them out so that they are out of range to get any exp or gold.

if you push it into the tower they get just reduced exp and they lose gold from the creeps that the tower hits (so you can easily kill 3-4 creeps while the tower kills the other 2-3 creeps).

Edit:
The whole idea about zoning/freezing a lane is that you force the enemy player to lose exp and gold while you gain exp and gold.

So if you can force the enemy out of the area where they get exp and gold from minions dying you should do that and then let the enemy minions kill your minions (that way for each minion the enemy minions kill you denied them that exp and gold). If you just kill the enemy minion wave with Impale or whatnot the enemy minions will kill 0 of your minions that then will go into their tower where the enemy can kill them without being in danger (sure they get reduced gold and exp, but the do get gold and exp). So why would you give them some gold and exp when you can deny them everything?


Well, I'm not really sure how you'd accomplish "zoning them out" completely. Stand between their minions and their tower and hope they don't come try to kill you? The second you hit them, their minions will turn on you. And minions usually do a lot of damage in the lane phase. You'd have the enemy after you with their minions glued to your ***, which is what you'd call a bad situation.

You're also putting yourself at great risk of getting ganked that way, which is why it's a lot less effective here than in LoL or Dota. The whole idea in those games is that you purposefully get pushed to your tower so you're safe, rather than forcing the enemy into their tower as you do in Smite. You can also kill your own creeps, towers, and even allied heroes in Dota 2 to deny the enemy gold, which isn't possible in Smite.

Basically, it would be a very rare occasion that you can completely block an enemy out of their lane, especially in duo lane. It's so much easier and simpler to just push them into the tower and force them to lose 3 or 4 minion's worth of gold than to have to deal with keeping them all the way down their lane away from the minions fighting so you can deny them exp/gold at all.

On top of that, if you did that, you'd be denying yourself gold and exp also, since you'd probably have to be so far down the lane in the first place (especially in solo lane or playing support). And also, more than likely would get ganked, as mentioned earlier.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by BestMinionEver » January 30, 2014 9:56am | Report
Ghraf wrote:

Well, I'm not really sure how you'd accomplish "zoning them out" completely. Stand between their minions and their tower and hope they don't come try to kill you? The second you hit them, their minions will turn on you. And minions usually do a lot of damage in the lane phase. You'd have the enemy after you with their minions glued to your ***, which is what you'd call a bad situation.

You're also putting yourself at great risk of getting ganked that way, which is why it's a lot less effective here than in LoL or Dota. The whole idea in those games is that you purposefully get pushed to your tower so you're safe, rather than forcing the enemy into their tower as you do in Smite. You can also kill your own creeps, towers, and even allied heroes in Dota 2 to deny the enemy gold, which isn't possible in Smite.

Basically, it would be a very rare occasion that you can completely block an enemy out of their lane, especially in duo lane. It's so much easier and simpler to just push them into the tower and force them to lose 3 or 4 minion's worth of gold than to have to deal with keeping them all the way down their lane away from the minions fighting so you can deny them exp/gold at all.

On top of that, if you did that, you'd be denying yourself gold and exp also, since you'd probably have to be so far down the lane in the first place (especially in solo lane or playing support). And also, more than likely would get ganked, as mentioned earlier.


I do this every game I play in lane, it is not hard or risky, unless you are mid, you do not ward or you put a tape over the minimap.
  • #1 Ward and you are safe.
  • #2 As I said this is something you do when you have been able to poke the enemy lane down so much that if they would try to come close enough to get exp or gold you would just kill them instantly. So they can't kill you :P
  • #3 exp is worth sooo much more than gold! And I have not played a single game (as support, solo etc) where I've not been able to get in a situation where I could have zoned out the enemy.
  • #4 You are staying at the enemy archers getting exp and gold for the enemy melee minions when they die (either to your minions while in solo lane or from you carry last hitting if you are in the duo lane.

It forces them either to take stupid risks and most likely give you a kill, or go back before they wanted to. And again why would you ever want to give the free safe gold and exp when you are going to win a fight?
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