Is ELO Hell an Issue?

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I play joust a lot, I see many people come and go with an occasional opponent from an earlier match forced to join me in the next match afterwards. And one thing I've noticed over constantly playing, my win/defeats seem to be a constant roller coaster. What I mean of course is that I'm pitted with teammates who play extremely well, followed by future matches where I'm teamed with uncoordinated people. I'm noticing a shift lately where I'm mostly finding myself joining the latter group of people.

I brought this up to my friend, and one thing he suggested was 'ELO hell', where the ELO algorithm decides to literally screw you and only lock you into matches it thinks you are skilled for. When in reality, you killed quite a lot purely out of getting that last hit in group fights or whatever. All of a sudden, your ELO decides to pit you in matches full of other lucky winners and actually skilled veterans who proceed to mop the floor with your nooby face.

Anyway, that's what I think I'm having a problem with in the game right now. I'm noticing a growing problem of constantly losing matches due to poor team composition and overall reckless teammates who think now's a good time to initiate before getting themselves splattered and steamrolled. I myself play just fine either as Loki or Ah Muzen Cab, maybe I play a little more cautiously than I should. But it bothers me that after my teammates continue to get themselves mercilessly throttled, they don't try and adapt. An actually skilled player who rightfully earned his ELO would adapt.

This is just showing me that I'm being put into matches where players (like myself) are not skilled for these matches, but the ELO decides that we are after we had a couple lucky runs with actually skilled teammates. Of course there's also the good matches, where me and my team are fighting against uncoordinated enemies, but that doesn't ignore the fact that there is an ELO hell.

Maybe I'm just crazy, paranoid, or just don't truly understand how ELO works. Do you folks have any experience with what I'm jabbering about? Is ELO hell an actual thing, and should HiRez spend more time tweaking it so lucky newbs don't wind up being pitted against people too tough for them?

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Remarkable (8)
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Joust like in 1v1?

This is my experience at least:
Try to take charge of the game, by that I mean do all the shot calling (when to attack x lane, GF, retreat etc). Don't just focus on your lane if you are playing AMC, look at the map all the time and call whenever you can't see someone, get your team to ward enemy red and speed (best ward spots in the game) etc.

I myself is in Bronze atm (did not play last season due to Christmas etc.) and the level of skill on most of the players are pretty low, so you have to help your team most of the time.

ELO hell is mostly in your head, because how a match is made is to add all the players individual ELO and divide it so that each team has the same amount of combined ELO.

Not sure if any of that helped you, and are we talking ranked ELO or the hidden casual ELO?

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Nah, he's talking about Joust 3v3.

@OP: Matchmaking pretty much tries to ensure that you end up with a 50% win rate, so losing streaks is a very common thing after win streaks, unfortunately.

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wrote:

Joust like in 1v1?

Very funny. 3v3 :P

wrote:

This is my experience at least:
Try to take charge of the game, by that I mean do all the shot calling (when to attack x lane, GF, retreat etc). Don't just focus on your lane if you are playing AMC, look at the map all the time and call whenever you can't see someone, get your team to ward enemy red and speed (best ward spots in the game) etc.

At least joust map is very small, it's much easier to do that than probably conquest for me. And I do that, always tossing shout commands around as well as offering the occasional comment just to keep peoples' moods happy. However, I cannot expect everyone to listen to me and in some matches (the obvious losing matches at that), they continue doing their own thing.

wrote:

ELO hell is mostly in your head, because how a match is made is to add all the players individual ELO and divide it so that each team has the same amount of combined ELO.

Not sure if any of that helped you, and are we talking ranked ELO or the hidden casual ELO?

Then is it possible for you to have a high ELO to be joined with low ELO teammates? Or 2 midlevel ELO people joined with a terribly low ELO teammate? Mix and match, etc?

And I don't know the difference between ranked and hidden casual. Thought there was just one ELO. :P

Remarkable (8)
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wrote:

Yes you can, it is hard to tell how high/low the hidden elo is though (all you know is if you are higher or lower than someone (highest elo is on top).

The easiest way to see it is when it comes to ranked elo, sometimes you can end up with a team with one person at lets say 3000 elo and and 4 ppl with 1500 elo an the other team can be full of ppl with 1800 elo. So in the end that makes it unfair for the 3k elo person who has to carry all the dead wight compared to the other team that all are "better" than the 1500 elo ppl.

Here is a example:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/1vbdte/elo_cap/

In casuals you encounter parties etc which just ****s the formula pretty hard, but it is the same consept in casual as well :P

And it does not try to make you have a 50% winrate, but it tries to give you a 50% chance to win :P

Just some examples from some ranked games

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The way it tries to make it a 50% chance to win essentially forces your win rate below what it should be. There's no use trying to argue that "2,200 + 700(4) = 1,000(5)" in a multiplayer game.

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So there is no ELO hell, just a wonky algorithm that allows just about anyone to pit with you regardless of ELO differences.

Remarkable (8)
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wrote:

The way it tries to make it a 50% chance to win essentially forces your win rate below what it should be. There's no use trying to argue that "2,200 + 700(4) = 1,000(5)" in a multiplayer game.

But when you are 2,2k you should be placed with other teams with 2,2k players etc. The reason for this not happening is just that there is not enough players queuing at the same time.

They could force the formula to use similar elo ppl on each team, so lets say if top elo on one team is 2k-2.5k the top elo on the other team is 2k-2,5k as well. But that would make the queue timers go up and you would be encountering more "unable to place you in a match" than now.

So until Smite gets more players we just have to live with it :P

If you are top elo take charge and lead your team to victory, ppl with low elo got game mechanics mastered (most of the time). They just needs to be told what to do and where to go.

wrote:

So there is no ELO hell, just a wonky algorithm that allows just about anyone to pit with you regardless of ELO differences.

Exactly, and it is mostly due to low population more than the algorithm we get bad games.

Here is a great example on how bad it can get with parties and not to many ppl queuing at the same time, games like that isn't fun for anyone:
https://account.hirezstudios.com/smitegame/match-details.aspx?match=41884933

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Make fun of my bad plays on Twitch ;)
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Personally, I don't think unranked even has ELO with how random and completely mismatched it is. You'll get gold league people in random matches against people with 1 or 2 mastery and no one is in a party, just all solo queue. You just have to get lucky.

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Memorable (13)
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wrote:

Most of the gold league players etc do not play casual at all (except to master a god), so their hidden elo is really low for that reason. Casual for league queue spammers is like smurfing for us basically :p

I had higher hidden elo than suntouch last time I had him on my team in casual..

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Is ELO Hell an Issue?

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