Sylvanus Thoughts + Reveal

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Of course, having not played in a while, I can't offer you much meta wise other than I feel like he will be a very solid, perhaps standard support pick due to him having the 'best of both worlds' from squishy healer supports (although more played solo lane from what I hear) and tanky CC supports.

Design wise, I feel like his kit is very overloaded in pretty much everything. They've put too much utility in his kit as a support that it crowds out the niches of other picks. If you want to blind pick a support, then you should blind pick Sylvanus, because he pretty much has no bad match-ups considering he has a bit of everything you could need, aside from damage.

Personally, I feel like while overloaded in utility, his kit is pretty good design wise. Looking at the separate abilities, there's nothing wrong with it, but together they become a bit too much on one God.

However, there is one thing that I feel like is a big no-no design wise, and that's his passive. It has a 25% chance to root an enemy that is attacking him with a cooldown. Let me go into depth as to why this passive is fundamentally flawed.

The biggest issue with this ability is the lack of skillful decision making and interaction this ability provides. Let's look at it from different views. A pursuer chasing a fleeing Sylvanus. He chases and weaves basic attacks in whenever he can. It just so happens that on one of the basic attacks he landed caused the random number generator to root. The pursuer feel cheated for a kill, as not only did he feel like Sylvanus did nothing skillful to actually outplay the pursuer, but he also feels bad that ultimately, the random number generator of fate decided that he will be rooted, and he curses his own luck and feels bad that it's only a 25% chance and he just so happened to fall within it.

The Sylvanus that is running away. There's a pursuer hot on your tail, and he is occassionally pounding you with a basic attack as you run. Luckily for you, your passive just so happens to proc. Yay, you run off happy and safe. Except, as you run, the joy is tainted with some dissatisfaction. Did I really do anything skillful to escape, or did I just run and then I got lucky and the chaser couldn't move? That wasn't really my skill now, was it? Let's say the passive doesn't proc. We have another situation as the one above, cursing your own luck and being pissed that the passive didn't proc to save yo' ***. Man, my luck is really shot today.

A runner kiting a Sylvanus that is chasing. Except, you see, the only issue is that with the mystical random number generator root passive, there would be no kiting involved as simply basic attacking Sylvanus gives him the opportunity to root you in place. So instead of trying to outplay Sylvanus, you are forced to simply run away from him with your tail between your legs. Running should never be the only counterplay to a situation. Not only does having a single counter create very binary experiences, but simply having no choice but to run and not fight while running means not being able to do anything or else Sylvanus can CC you until his team arrives.

If this passive procs, you didn't outplay anyone. In fact, with this passive, the opportunity to outplay someone doesn't exist. You see, not only does it rely on your opponent to be so foolish enough as to basic attack you (Atrocious, I know. Basic attacking?! What an idiot!), but even if you were to plan out some cool play with this ability, it ultimately would not be a reliable plan as they decided to tack on a random number generator on it. What if you try to orchestrate the play, be it a bait or something, and then your passive never procs? Your whole plan has just turned to shambles. This passive turns a game of "When I do X, I can do X" to "If X happens, then I can do X". You should feel good about capitalising on opportunities you yourself set up, not plays that luck has decided, and you simply having to react to when it happens.

Personally, I feel like the random number generator reflects Hi-Rez's inexperience or perhaps sheer incompetence or sloth when it comes to game design. I feel like the random number generator was tacked on as a form of 'counterplay', except when luck is involved, no one is outplaying or counterplaying anyone, and it becomes a game of chance as to something happening. And like I've said numerous times, chance should not exist in a MOBA as it discourages reliable strategic play and offers very little opportunities, in fact, I'd go as far as to say no opportunities to have satisfying moments within the game.

TL;DR Sylvanus utility is incredibly overloaded, but I suppose with such high power creep, it's acceptable in Smite. What isn't in any MOBA is luck based effects, reasoning detailed above.

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I pretty much agree with everything you say, except for the acceptable part. Smite is power creeped enough, and they just pushed the bar even higher with this guy. He has both healing and mana sustain, something that no other support or mage has, on top of what might as well be another Geb ult, on top of an ability so powerful, it made some consider Arachne as a support purely out of that singular ability.

Basically, he's everything good about Zyra and Blitzcrank and old Soraka (and new Starcall) tied into one champion.

He has literally no downsides, and his only weakness is low mobility - which doesn't really matter considering he's a support, not an assassin. Not to mention his pull. As for the AoE basic attacks, they are just yet another gimmick that HiRez shoved in and revealed to build hype, and yet it doesn't even do anything.

He's a complete design failure, a mishmash of everything with no character or class, made out of purely binary decisions with no depth. Just like every other support in the game, really.

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wrote:

...He has both healing and mana sustain, something that no other support or mage has...

You forgot Chang'e....

He's got a ****load of CC and a return of Gem of Binding might make him even better, but I don't see him as a threat from my Arena point of view. Will see how he'll handle teamfights after his release.

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wrote:

Considering a portion of us do not play League, using League champions is a poor way to make your point.

I mean sure, he has dominated the meta.. oh what's that? He hasn't even been released yet?

ALL of your complaining is invalid until he is released and he has been out for enough time to accurately judged. I'd say a character with an AoE damage/heal is NOT like every other support in the game.

Sub, could you try and be a little more upbeat, please? It's depressing to see you ***** about everything Hi-Rez does. It's like you're out to get them...

Oh wait, you are.

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wrote:

You seem to be as negative as he is. At least he's being negative toward an inanimate object, instead of a person.

If you haven't played other Mobas, I suggest you educate yourself and give them a try. It's valuable experience.

All of your assurances that this patch will be "good" are also invalid until the patch is implemented. That is why all comments about it are assumed to be purely speculation. We judge such comments based on the commentor's experience and ability to predict the effects of the patch. Congratulations for realizing this, glad to see you're finally on the same track as the rest of us.

Also, , 's old ultimate, , , , ...my, my, you certainly are hasty to throw stones, aren't you?

Edit: Your behavior is quite unseemly. I suggest, next time, rather than criticize another's comment, you give one of your own. Otherwise, you look like someone nursing quite a grudge.

Memorable (10)
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You're right, I'm way out of line for calling out negativity. Gosh, silly me.

I have no obligation to play other MOBAS, nor to compare Smite to other MOBAS, since Smite is extremely unique compared to Dota, League, and HOTS.

I'm glad you're playing moral police and telling me that it's just speculation, but when someone is poisoning the thread with such harsh opinion, I, too, feel the need to play moral police.

As Subzero once said to me, you're being quite presumptuous.

Oh, and about your comment about me FINALLY realizing this.

You main League of Legends, have 5 posts, and have no clue who I am or how I act on the forums. While I do get angry at Sub and his negativity, I am not throwing stones at him. If I was doing this, I would be using personal insults, which I am not. I am merely stating my frustration at his harsh negativity which may poison the thread and entailing discussion.

Please do not treat me like I am a small child. I understand how this works, I've been on Smitefire actively for a long time.

I'm glad you've decided to randomly come on and kick me in the nuts.

Thanks to Ferrum for making the sig pic! He's beast af people.
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He gives everybody MP5s? Seems kinda OP >.>

Edit: Speaking of, where is Sylvanus? I though he was supposed to be launched today?

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He gives everybody MP5s? Seems kinda OP >.>

Edit: Speaking of, where is Sylvanus? I though he was supposed to be launched today?

I'm guessing they moved the patch to tomorrow, they always do that ><

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wrote:

There is a word for those who seek to obfuscate the argument with nonsensical points. That word is Sophistry. I am not being "moral" when I tell you that the focus of this argument and thread is mere speculation. I am being factual - in comparison to you acting out on your grudge against Subzero, which is indeed a moral problem. Unless you think that this topic being speculation is only a subjective matter?

As I said before, if Subzero is "poisoning this thread," you are propagating it. Your negativity extends to others now. I suggest you stop. You do realize its possible to call out or quell negativity without proliferating it?

You are correct in that you do not need to play other MOBAs. However, Smite is not as unique as you might think. You should not state otherwise, for, as you said, you have little or no experience with other MOBAs. So I recommend you do not speak of which you don't understand.

Furthermore, concerning your latter point. You are correct that I main League of Legends, but dreadfully incorrect on everything else. I may not participate, but I do look, and listen. An argument is an exchange of ideas, freely and equally given. You do not seek an argument. You attempt to discredit my points and my competence by calling me out on my supposed inexperience, as well as bolster yourself by stating your own presumably deep and enlightened experience. I know plenty about Smite, and plenty about you, and what I have seen tells me that you are not a very pleasant person, with presumption and pretension to spare.

Let us dispense with the sophistry and fallacious arguments. One does not need to personally insult someone to attack them. You do not need to know a man's personal history or behavior in order to insult his mother. Your caustic and sarcastic attitude is plain to see in your comments to both me and Subzero, and I request that you stop and speak in a more proper manner.

Memorable (10)
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wrote:

Or I'll just stop talking to you altogether, because you're one of the best trolls on this entire site. So if that was your goal, kudos.

Anyway, for my take on Slyvava, I love the idea of a guy who can support through mp5 AND heals, but that means his damage numbers should be toned down just a tad. Other than that, this guy is looking like one of Smite's only 'true' supports.

Thanks to Ferrum for making the sig pic! He's beast af people.
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