Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal :: Page 3

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wrote:

If he gets a rework I want him to keep Shackles.

While being iconic, Shackles have no place on a Guardian. There are a few reasons.

1) As a standalone ability, it is one of the best if not the best ability in the game. Look at its damage, look at its CC, look at the capability. You can cripple and slow up to 3 enemies for 4 seconds while dealing ******ed amounts of damage. And if you focus purely on one target? You can cripple and slow them for 8, consecutive seconds, while dealing more base and scaling damage than almost any other Mages' ultimate.

2) While its CC is good, this ability is just bad for peeling. It's an offensive one. Sure, that doesn't mean you cannot defend your ADC / team with it, but it doesn't stop the enemy from attacking - it only slows and cripples them. They can still cast abilities and move. Needless to say, if your team is being initiated upon, chances are enemies will use their movement abilities to engage, thus leaving the cripple useless most of the times when used defensively.

3) If you were to give him a good peeling ability with actual hard CC (knock up, stun, fear, even a massive slow like Odin has), than all of a sudden, he would have insane damage, great CC and peeling and good team buff.

You could just keep it and nerf it, but I feel like this is too binding. If you have idea of how to make it balanced and fit his kit without making it OP, considering you give him actual peeling capabilities, go ahead.

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Ares is just weird. That said he is fun to play and also has the uncanny ability to waste the enemy beads, possibly incurring a hades/chang'e ult to destroy a teamfight. That said, eh doesn't feel like a guardian at all. Maybe rework him into a magical bruiser?

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He already is a magical bruiser. He can dish out a lot of damage and endure a lot. that is all he does. He has no peel, his ultimate is just easily countered, he is really really ability reliant, he has no mobility and his initiation is mediocre.

We want him to becomes a real guardian - one that supports his team and relies on it.

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I'd rather have him be a Magical Bruiser/Warrior rather than a Guardian if it means he gets to keep his kit.

I just really like the kit, and don't want to see it thrown away.

Memorable (12)
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Than don't participate in the Ares discussion. Don't read this the wrong way, I don't mean to offend you or sound condescending - just wait until we move on. Because now, as I and most of the rest of the Smite community see it, Ares is just... bad. It doesn't mean you can't play him well, it doesn't mean he isn't fun. It just means that he cannot compete as well with the rest of the Guardians aside from Hades.

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wrote:

I think I (and the rest who think Ares's kit is fine as is (minus some numbers)) should also have our say on the matter.

Memorable (12)
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I agree on only one argument that has a passive which doesn't match his guardian status. It sounds like that of a mage warrior!..I think his damage and peel is good if played well. I don't think he needs a total rework. For me he consumes a lot of mana early on which hampers him to use skills and level up fast enough. Use skills 1, 2 and 3 and all his mana gone. He consumes too much fuel for a tank and delivers less. His early game is pretty bad.

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Quoted:

wrote:

I think I (and the rest who think Ares's kit is fine as is (minus some numbers)) should also have our say on the matter.

Well, I get your point, but, then again, you can't really prevent us from suggesting his reworks. There some people who like Ares the way he is, which is fine. But most of the community feels like he deserves a rework.

Much like there are people who want old Kali. But old Kali had a lot of problems. She was the only character in SMITE history to have absolutely no CC whatsoever. Her blood lash was ******ed, but she had low mobility for a someone who needs to get some auto attacks, and her ultimate was purely used for CC immunity, while being very, very long (5s) and she couldn't attack at that time. And her ult's damage so avoidable and therefore ineffective. She was basically "Imma Blood Lash you for half of your health and then do nothing but heal myself up and become immune to CC while dealing no damage."

Bottom line - her kit had flaws, much like Ares has. Some people still want old Kali. New Kali also has her downfalls, don't get me wrong, but at least she has somewhat of a flow and effectiveness other than "press '2'".

Ares is in a position where he is not a Guardian, but also not a Mage. He is a magical bruiser, but he isn't so good at it either. In Arena, he is freaking amazing if you can land that skill shot. But in Conquest, which is the main focus, he just doesn't bring enough.

He has no clear and is too reliant on his Shackles to become a Mage, on top of the pathetic damage does before maxing it, or at least leveling it to 3.

He has poor peeling and not so much of a support as a Guardian. Searing Flesh does nothing for him, as well as his passive. His ultimate is easily avoided, and not only because of beads, but because more than half of the gods in this game get CC immunity from their ultimates. His Bolster Defenses is nice, but because what Ares does is damage, you'd want to max and ASAP, and so it only becomes a factor late game, and late game 60 protections isn't that much when anybody can kill anybody with 3 auto attacks or a single ultimate.

I like playing Ares too, but he deserves his rework. He deserves to be effective outside of the laning phase, which is already very short for Guardians. He is amazing in Arena if you actually don't build him as an ult bot but as a magical bruiser, but in Conquest, he just doesn't have it.

You can comment all you want about how you want to keep him, but I don't think that it's worth anything and won't prevent us from suggesting ideas and discussing them...

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I don't think Sasquatch or NexTheSlayer should be disregarded. He can keep Shackles while being reworked to be a good support/bruiser/whatever, as long as we rework it right.

Jord, I like your stance ideas, but your power bonuses should be the same, since +10% of 500 MP = 50 MP and +10% of 250 PP is 25 PP. They both get the same equivalent bonus, and I really don't want to see ADCs get roughly 60 free power late game while mages get 60 MP.

Shackles, if kept, obviously need a rework. We can go about this two ways.

1. High cooldowns but stronger CC, just like every other tank ability in the game, it seems.

2. Lower cooldowns but weaker CC, like a REAL support.

3. High cooldowns and weaker CC but recastable, like the current Ares.

All three will still get some kind of buff to their CC.

Their primary role should still be inflicting a decent amount of damage while not having the best CC. However, like Nex says, the damage should not be ridiculously over the top. I have three ideas for the CC.

A. Roots and cripples, then a slow.

B. A restraining mechanic where they can't move outside the chains' radius, like TT suggested a while ago, perhaps combined with another form of CC.

C. A damage reduction debuff, further incorporating the idea of a "soft" peel.

These two categories can be combined.

2A. Ares's Shackles deal X damage and root and cripple the enemy hit for 1 second before slowing them by 17/19/21/23/25% for the next 2 seconds. Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8 seconds.

1C. Ares's Shackles deal X damage and slow and reduce the target's damage by 2/4/6/8/10%. The slow and damage reduction stack with recasts. 18 (or 15, whatever) sec cooldown.

Use your imagination on the other ones. But that's my idea for his Shackles rework. Hopefully, it'll still feel the same.

(Final note: B might be a better idea for his ult.)

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wrote:

What?

Ares has no mana problems. You should never use in lane except for when you initiate or defend yourself from attacks. You should only use if you have landed .

If you can't control Ares' mana usage than you don't know how to control general mana usage in Smite, because he almost never uses abilities to clear waves, as he shouldn't.

Ares' early game isn't weak. It's really really strong. Because of the insane base damage on , he can completely wreck any enemy. He can take down more than 50% of their health. Their damage somewhat falls off late game because usually Ares won't build much damage. But when coupled with an item like , they can easily deal true damage, in addition to the many ticks provides, which apply its passive instantly.

Ares' strongest point is his early-mid game. His critical mass is somewhere between levels 7-10, where he can literally 100-0 any Mage with 3 well timed and .

Well, I get your point, but, then again, you can't really prevent us from suggesting his reworks. There some people who like Ares the way he is, which is fine. But most of the community feels like he deserves a rework.

Much like there are people who want old Kali. But old Kali had a lot of problems. She was the only character in SMITE history to have absolutely no CC whatsoever. Her blood lash was ******ed, but she had low mobility for a someone who needs to get some auto attacks, and her ultimate was purely used for CC immunity, while being very, very long (5s) and she couldn't attack at that time. And her ult's damage so avoidable and therefore ineffective. She was basically "Imma Blood Lash you for half of your health and then do nothing but heal myself up and become immune to CC while dealing no damage."

Bottom line - her kit had flaws, much like Ares has. Some people still want old Kali. New Kali also has her downfalls, don't get me wrong, but at least she has somewhat of a flow and effectiveness other than "press '2'".

Ares is in a position where he is not a Guardian, but also not a Mage. He is a magical bruiser, but he isn't so good at it either. In Arena, he is freaking amazing if you can land that skill shot. But in Conquest, which is the main focus, he just doesn't bring enough.

He has no clear and is too reliant on his Shackles to become a Mage, on top of the pathetic damage does before maxing it, or at least leveling it to 3.

He has poor peeling and not so much of a support as a Guardian. Searing Flesh does nothing for him, as well as his passive. His ultimate is easily avoided, and not only because of beads, but because more than half of the gods in this game get CC immunity from their ultimates. His Bolster Defenses is nice, but because what Ares does is damage, you'd want to max and ASAP, and so it only becomes a factor late game, and late game 60 protections isn't that much when anybody can kill anybody with 3 auto attacks or a single ultimate.

I like playing Ares too, but he deserves his rework. He deserves to be effective outside of the laning phase, which is already very short for Guardians. He is amazing in Arena if you actually don't build him as an ult bot but as a magical bruiser, but in Conquest, he just doesn't have it.

You can comment all you want about how you want to keep him, but I don't think that it's worth anything and won't prevent us from suggesting ideas and discussing them...

I didn't mean to imply you can't suggest anything, I just meant that I (and others) feel he is fine as is. Sorry if thats how it came off as.

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