Let's Make Patch Notes - Jungling

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The purpose of this thread is to:

Identify problems with jungling.
Find out the root cause of the problems.
Formulate solutions to the problems.
???
Profit!

List of Problems

Problem #1: It is way, way too easy to fall behind in jungling, and being shut down is nearly impossible to recover from.

I know that most of you are going to say that "just don't be stupid in the early game." The problem is, some gods like and and whatnot are simply way too strong in the early game.

At any rate, the fact remains: If you die (for whatever reason), it is nearly impossible to recover.

Goal #1: Make it easier to recover from an early loss in the jungle, but let's not make it too easy.

Solution #1a: Those potions have to go. Every damn jungler gets a power pot, and that's part of the reason why dying as a jungler puts you so far back. You essentially waste 400 gold.

The problem is, there's not much room to work with. 400 gold can't buy much. So I have a solution: reduce the price of to 500 gold, and remove the damn power pots or increase their price to 1000 gold. 1000 gold provides much more flexibility than 700.

Solution #1b: Some kind of item that scales well early game and is near useless late game, so it'll be more useful to the underdog that just died, rather than the guy who got the kill. Maybe an item that increases any damage you deal to the camps from basic attacks by 20, or something like that. Maybe add it to Bumba's or make an entirely new starting item.

This way, junglers who die will at least have a fighting chance.

What do you think? Is this/those a problem?

Renowned (112)
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i like this but i don't think making bumba's cheaper is the right awnser.

Introduching an item that is very cheap and only cost's 400 gold for tier one. I'd say make it similar to old fatalis without the attack speed and with 30-35 power at max rank that gives a small passive effect.

I personally would like to make the mid furies not the be all end all and win all. Basicly making the mid lane a bit less dependant on each other. I mean we have all had those games where you fell behind just because your partner didn't help with furies and they got stolen.

never forget dawngate and never forgive EA. Freia will hunt them for eternity.

Distinguished (54)
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Uh, don't we already have for that? I was hoping for a cheap, no-ranking item that you can get easily at the start. So here's an adaptation of your idea:

Hunter's Arrow: Your basic attacks deal 30 additional damage to jungle minions, +8% attack speed and 4% movement speed. 400 gold.

I put attack speed to make it a bit more universal. It's also more effective than a physical power pot, albeit at the cost of not affecting abilities or PVP. I think this will work. It seems balanced, and certainly is a lot less risky for junglers.

And yeah, the mid camps are a huge problem. But I think they really deserve their own section.

Renowned (112)
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Hmmm...you know, part of the problem is . The fact that you instantly execute both harpies makes it difficult for mid camps to be "dynamic."

Renowned (112)
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Well telekines sucks and is only for mage's.

I don't like your one tier item that lets you do extra minion damage idea's. Mostly because it will be out classed by raw power quickly seeing as jungle "clear" was never that big of a probleme. If you don't have your power pot most junglers will still have pretty high clear speed though slower compared to some one who does.

The main probleme with the loss of a power pot is gank potential.

Edit:phone

never forget dawngate and never forgive EA. Freia will hunt them for eternity.

Distinguished (54)
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I don't think you understand the depth of the problem; if you lose your power pot via death, you are completely and utterly ****ed.

For one, you can't gank. You need to farm.

But your farm is slower, and way more dangerous, because minions get stronger with time, and you actually deal less damage than before. I've seen gods die because they get early-game raped by or and they simply can't clear before the camps kill them.

Just...trust me on this, please? Losing your power pot is really, really bad.

As for the item idea, it works. It's 400 gold for what is basically 30 power, in comparison, costs over 1500 gold. It's efficient, and helps clear. Yes, it gets outclassed by building power.

So what? It does its job of helping early clear, and providing a safer option than a power pot. It works.

(Did you get my PMs?)

Renowned (112)
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I did get the pm's.

I do understand the depth of the probleme. That's the whole reason im against an item that promote's farming of jungle camps over a raw power item's.

I don't want smite to just add in a hunter's machete. I want a cheap item primairly bought by junglers. That way getting killed early will work exactly the same for all roles.

never forget dawngate and never forgive EA. Freia will hunt them for eternity.

Distinguished (54)
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Why no reply :(

Uh...I'm not sure if I understand you here.

This item is cheap. And bought by junglers. I don't see what you specifically find wrong with it.

I mean, you seem to think that promoting farming is bad, right? Why?

We agree that the being impossible to recover from an early loss is bad, right? So why exactly do you think this is bad?

Renowned (112)
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wrote:

Edit:phone

Is why no reply.

never forget dawngate and never forgive EA. Freia will hunt them for eternity.

Distinguished (54)
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Because more farming often equalls less combat.

I want the jungler to get a start more similar to other roles. Starter item-active-tier one item. The reason why is to get a fight even ground even after an early death. The reason i don't want it to be your item is because it would too easy to comeback with your easy farming item. I want it to not be as puneching as it is now, i want death for a jungler to be as puneching as death is for other roles.

never forget dawngate and never forgive EA. Freia will hunt them for eternity.

Distinguished (54)
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