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LMPN: Power Creep, Ullr, and Hunters/ADCs

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Forum » General Discussion » LMPN: Power Creep, Ullr, and Hunters/ADCs 18 posts - page 1 of 2

Poll Question:


How Do We Address Power Creep?
Nerf the Stronk
Buff the Weak
No, never change!
VOTE
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » March 20, 2014 10:32pm | Report
Okay, with the release of Ullr, I think we need to address the power creep issue. On hunters, specifically.

Let me go through a little list of pros and cons and whatnot of each hunter.
  • Art. Specializes in basic damage, has high damage but sufferes from near-useless abilities late game and a lack of mobility, as well as no escapes. Her only real CC is in her ultimate.

  • Anhur. High burst, high damage with both basics and abilities, all of which remain usefull late game. Has an escape, has a stun but it's rather situational.

  • Muzen. No escapes, but high mobility and high late game damage, strong CC abilities and good amounts of area damage, as well as a godly laning phase. Has a moderate amount of CC and high burst.

  • Apollo. High mobility, global travel ultimate, moderate burst, moderate basic damage, moderate CC.

  • Neith. High CC, good escape, global ultimate, somewhat weak basic attack damage, strong ability damage, very safe laning phase.

  • Cupid. Moderate CC, high sustain, strong ability damage, has an escape, moderate basic attack damage.

  • Xbal. Very little CC, global ultimate, good escape, good area damage, strong basic attacks, global ultimate that doesn't do much.

  • Ullr. Strong CC, has an escape, high burst, strong abilities, strong basic attack damage, innate sustain. Has the best stun of any hunter.

Can you see the difference here?

I'm trying to equalize them, but how? Vote plz.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Jordenito » March 20, 2014 10:48pm | Report
Er, I have no idea. Maybe you could tell me; how are hunters compared to other gods? How are they compared to Mages, Assassins, Bruisers? I think we need to calculate this factor as well to see if the change needed is a nerf or a buff, 'cause I have no idea...
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » March 20, 2014 11:12pm | Report
Power Creeping is part of any game. You NEED gods to be hype and fun, plus strong to play, so people continue being interested in new releases. When they are average (like Nu Wa), or downright bad, people become discontent. Sure some people find them fun, but a lot of people feel let down. It's fun to play a god that's overpowered, and tehn tone it down, than to try to make a god fun that started out moderate or mediocre. It's just how it is.

Additionally, it's easier to nerf something (usually overnerf something) than to buff something. If you nerf a god too far, you only affect ONE god's standing. If you buff a god too far, you hurt every OTHER god by making them less comparably viable. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but yeah.

As for how to nerf Ullr, idk. They made his kit, not his numbers, too strong. I guess a nerf to his stun duration would help, but the rest of his kit is fine...it's just its conception.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Jordenito » March 21, 2014 5:23am | Report
Ullr's jump should be slowed down a little bit. Have you seen it? it's lightning fast...
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Kriwych » March 21, 2014 6:44am | Report
Art's trap is an escape. Art is also very, very scary late game. I'd say more so than the other carry classes (aside from Ullr, haven't seen enough personally to comment).

Are you trying to get at how Ullr is doing better than all of the other carry classes in the game? He was just released, give it a few weeks. I see his lifesteal (melee) being dropped down to 3/6/9/12/15% as well as attack speed (bow) being dropped to 3/6/9/12/15% right away.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » March 21, 2014 8:29am | Report
@ Jordenito: I'm not sure...currently, mages and bruisers seem to be dominating the meta right now. I think the strength of Ah Muzen Cab and Ullr are an effort to bring hunters back.

@ Raventhor: That's why I want to buff other hunters instead of nerfing them. Because currently, if we went the nerf option, we'd have to nerf multiple classes of gods, instead of just buffing a few hunters slightly. Also, HiRez seems to be buffing hunters as a whole, so I'm just trying to go with the flow here.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » March 21, 2014 8:30am | Report
Kriwych wrote:

Art's trap is an escape. Art is also very, very scary late game. I'd say more so than the other carry classes (aside from Ullr, haven't seen enough personally to comment).

Are you trying to get at how Ullr is doing better than all of the other carry classes in the game? He was just released, give it a few weeks. I see his lifesteal (melee) being dropped down to 3/6/9/12/15% as well as attack speed (bow) being dropped to 3/6/9/12/15% right away.

Art's trap is NOT an escape. It is the worst possible substitute for an escape. If you find yourself out of position, one trap is not going to save you.

The problem with Ullr is that he's barely overpowered. I'm trying to react to a trend of stronger ADCs.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Jordenito » March 21, 2014 8:37am | Report
Woops! I misvoted... Any way to change it back? (voted to nerf instead of buff)
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » March 21, 2014 9:12am | Report
I don't think so. Sorry :(
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by TormentedTurnip » March 21, 2014 10:09am | Report
I disagree with powercreep being necessary. How on earth is having an overpowered god fun? It basically devalues all of the other gods that a company's spent months trying to keep in balance, and only one or two people can play them per game. In fact, strong releases discourage me from playing the game until they're toned down.

Constantly increasing the power level just makes everything harder to balance and will end up breaking a game if it's not kept under control.

As for the solution, I don't think it's okay to simply nerf the strong or buff the weak. But new gods shouldn't come out with everything an existing god has and then some.
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