High vs Low Tier: Discussion of Balancing Options

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List of High Tier Tanks: Sobek, Ymir, Athena, and Hercules gets an honorary mention for being near-impossible to kill.

List of Lower-Tiered Tanks: Every other tank.

The question is, should we buff the lower tiers, or nerf the high-tiers? This isn't just about tanks. Anyone can clearly see that Neith is like a better version of Artemis, or that Kali is practically obsolete.

I think there are two forms of power creep that need to be addressed.

A. Low starting stats. Fairly self-explanatory.

B. Lack of diversity in movepool.

Ares is pretty much a one-trick pony. Artemis lacks CC and an escape. Ra's little speed buff is completely outclassed by Poseidon, who gets multiple effects from one passive. Neith and Xbalanque can burst with extreme mobility, and Apollo can double his attack speed. Neith has ridiculous CC. More and more gods have hard CC as a non-ultimate ability, where it used to be rare before.

Why would you ever bother to learn to pillar-stun as Anhur when Neith can root and slow and stun you? Why bother mastering Ao Kuang when Poseidon can wave clear almost as well and do everything else a lot better?

It's not that difficult to nerf the higher tiers. It's little things, like preventing Agni from farting so quickly after using his ult, or removing the slow from Neith's backflip, or removing the cripple from Poseidon's whirpool.

How would you suggest balancing this game?

Renowned (112)
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Er... replace with , herc is a bruiser and is thought to be in between / and . The other tanks are considered low-tier because they aren't exactly tanks.

I think we should take the balancing act you're suggesting one god at a time. I'll do the ones you mentioned earlier, starting with .

: I think that they should try to elaborate on her "hunting" style.
1.) Buffs: Make the radius bigger; Make the root longer. Nerfs: Remove the damage.
2.) Buffs: Give a movement speed buff; increase the duration SLIGHTLY; add increased basic attack range. Nerfs: Reduce basic attack damage SLIGHTLY while active, only like 10 damage off per shot, enough for it not to be OP.
3.) Buffs: Increase the slow. Nerfs: Decrease the damage slightly.
4.) Buffs: Increase the stun; add a slow after the stun; make the boar last longer; give it a larger radius. Nerfs: SLIGHTLY reduce the damage.

This should give an emphasis to a "hunter" playstyle, most likely shifting her into the Jungle role instead of the Carry role.

Prominent (33)
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wrote:

While I don't disagree with the main point, I think you make several mistakes here.

1.) is a high tier tank. He has been preferred over . The big, lovable ice block just recently started creeping back into competitive play, and more often as a solo than a support tank.

2.) The / comparison is weird. The two have very little in common apart from being classified as hunters. Neith has a line skillshot, a AOE damage/self heal, an escape an global ult. Artemis, on the other hand, has trap, an attack speed/movement speed steroid, ground target damage/slow and a decidedly non-global ult suited to close combat, not across the map snipes. Saying that Neith is basically a better Artemis therefore seems like a flawed statement, especially considering the latter's recent rise in popularity in the pro scene where she often deals the most damage and has done away with the near total dominance of Neith and . She's even helped back into the scene.

3.) You compare and purely on grounds of their passives, which makes the comparison look more one sided than it is. is used as an example of power creep even though he is one of the weaker carries. is made out to have less to him than he has. (he doesn't have much, but he's not a one-trick pony)

4.) Why bother learning Anhur pillar stuns when Neith can root easier? Because a stun is better than a root, and because Anhur deals a lot more damage than Neith does. She cannot match the damage Anhur puts out on opponents trapped in his sand. Really, superior damage output compared to other carries was always Anhur's big selling point. You also undervalue 's current viability, after his buffs he has done very well in tournies on several occasions, and he is easily on par with Poseidon in terms of potential for teamfight devastation. Ever seen is new and improved ult run straight through an enemy team? It's not pretty.

I do agree balance could be better an that there are definitely some high tier gods and some low tier, but you seem to think certain gods are either better or worse than they really are.

Memorable (10)
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How to fix : put a half second delay on his fumes between when they're placed and when they can be detonated. Bam, now you have to set fumes up ahead of time instead of ulting then fuming.

everything else is fine about him, imo.

Remarkable (6)
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wrote:

That would make her low tier, I would rather take a look on that goddamed OP dash of his Path Of Flame. The cc immunity is just to much, either make the dash have a longer animation (where he can be stunned) or remove the cc immunity IMO :P

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The problem is mostly the fact that some gods are just plain BETTER then others, hands down. You can't tell me with a straight face you'd rather have a on your team then a .

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wrote:

The problem is mostly the fact that some gods are just plain BETTER then others, hands down. You can't tell me with a straight face you'd rather have a on your team then a .

Well, unless you face a team composed of all physical gods - oh, wait Hercules is better there too. *sigh*

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1) Damn, I knew I was forgetting someone. I guess that's why you don't put broad terms like "everyone else."

2) I suppose you get my point, but I guess Apollo and Artemis would've made a better comparison. (Both have attack speed buffs, and different strengths, one is played more and is more viable, but both have a pretty similar "hit with basics" playstyle.)

3) True, in terms of sustain and clearing, Ra's got s slight advantage, but I tried to use the speed comparison to say that the meta has moved on right now. What used to be a remarkable passive has become ... something tacked on to another passive in the footnotes.

And I think we can squeeze some discussion out of Ares being a one-trick pony.

Point A: His other abilities are ineffective enough to render to be his main selling point.

Subpoint A1: is impressive on one target, yes, but it's usefulness dwindles as the game progresses. Not to mention that it's easily countered by , or nearly any defense item.

Subpoint A2: can be useful in a teamfight, but that still leaves the problems of being unable to contribute much damage or CC or initiation, as well as being less effective when unable to hit your . Also, they nerfed this ability HARD when it could no longer stack with other CC reduction items.

Subpoint A3: searing flames is contradictory. Any defense will make this ability negligible (Common ones like Void Stone included), and it is utterly worthless as an area attack. Seriously, I think Ares might have been more effective if they designed him to be a bruiser.

Subpoint A4: Yes, he can shackle thrice, use his searing flames to "burst" on one enemy, and he will inflict heavy damage, but:

Subsubpoint A4a: If the enemy survives, Ares will lack any kind of countermeasure or retaliation.

Subsubpoint A4b: Doing this combo requires you to walk toward the enemy while being unable to do anything else, which is self-explanatory.

Point B: His only effective AoE attack is his ultimate, and it is an ultimate. Not repeatable in the span of one teamfight.

Subpoint B1: It is also his only hard CC, when other tanks have such CC outside of their ults.

Conclusion: The only thing Ares is worth for is his ultimate, which is easily counterable. While I concede that his kit can be useful in one-on-one fights, and his buff is useful when attacking map objectives, the inherent danger and the lack of such fights in the late game, as well as his poor ability to initiate and the lack of CC make him...where he is now.

Also, I may have exaggerated when I said he was a one-trick pony. Hopefully, this sums up my argument.

4) I can't refute any of what you're saying, but I think my earlier point still stands. Anhur may do more damage, and Ao Kuang may be equally useful, but why bother taking the effort to learn and master them when one can accomplish similar results with another god in the same role, who is vastly easier to learn yet is equal in overall effectiveness?

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High vs Low Tier: Discussion of Balancing Options

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