Kali Reworked! :: SmiteFire

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I didn't know where else to place this thread, so here she be.

I love Kali, but it saddens me (look...these are real tears!) that she isn't competitive. She is not a top jungler, and as suggested by someone else here, you build her as a tank, but she is not then a top tank either. Let's face it. Kali is billed an assassin/carry that is what she does best, she just doesn't do it quite good enough.

I just started a thread under "Theory Crafting" entitled Two 1/2 junglers and Three solo laners" in which I suggest that the responsibility of jungling be split between two players. It is absolutely brilliant and you ought to read it. I am surprised no one has thought of it long before and that it is not already how things are done. Even if someone did think of it before, I don't really care. All I know is that I thought of it on my own and it is sheer genius, so obviously whoever else might have thought of it they didn't know how to sell it. Well, okay, maybe...MAYBE...it is not a great idea (it really is), but someone will have to prove that to me (which is impossible because it is better than slice bread sliced by Kali herself.)

But I digress. I just wanted to convey that Kali inspired the idea of the 1/2 jungle role because I think it is how to get the most out of her under the present circumstances. I do not know if she was ever more powerful than she is now but strongly suspect that if she was nerfed hard, that she was Over Nerfed, which will now be reduced to ON keeping with OP and UP.

The point is Kali needs and entirely deserves to be reworked. I say this even though I love Kali. I adore her even as she is. I worship the very ground she makes minions and other gods bleed on. I am seriously considering converting to Hinduism because of her (or possibly to whatever Nordic religion Freya belongs to because, well, that chick's got it goin' on! So she has a couple of wings, so what? Kali has a couple of extra arms (and we all know she really has more arms than Arachne has legs, but let's not go there.) All I am saying is that Kali needs to make them bleed a little more. Is that so much to ask? She is the Goddess of DESTRUCTION, after all. It is only fitting. It is only right. You KNOW this to be true, HighRez.

Far be it from me to ask you to do this and not suggest how to rework her. Actually, my concept takes its cue from your own. Kali's passive, Enrage, buffs her innate 5% lifesteal and additional 20% when she is below 25% health. The 5% is clearly in adequate and forcing her to get so low on health before giving her anymore is inadequate and, frankly, unfair. Why make Freya's necklace give her 15% all the time yet make Kali wait till she is so vulnerable before she gets a drop more? It's much too negative, much like Bastet's passive of quicker respond times, which out to be reconsidered. It is a poor take on the 'nine lives' idea. At the very least, you could give her a free teleport to ANY tower, so she can at least pounce right back in on the action and keep the respond time super fast. If she HAS nine lives why should she wait at all? Make her have to select the teleport but give it at no charge. Give her nine coupons. Women love coupons.

I agree it makes good sense to make Kali stronger the closer she gets to destruction as she is the goddess of said destruction. I like the thought, but it should be scaled in and across the board. She should get faster attack speed, greater power, more lifesteal, penetration, critical strike, and more protections the closer she gets to death. How much of each and when to start scaling it in, I could not even guess. Enough to make her competitive. Don't just scale in lifesteal. She has to give more hurt to lifesteal and she needs a bit of time to do it. You can do this. I know you can. In fact, it makes so much sense, I know you will.

Insights, creative ideas, and constructive criticism welcomed. Feel free to piss and moan, too, if it makes you feel better. I'm not welcoming it though. No soup for you!

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I actually wish her looks like katarina or akali from league of legend

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Distinguished (58)
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I don't play LoL myself, but I'm sure Katerina is quite fetching. That was my grandmother's name, btw. I like Kali's art, myself, but everything can be improved. As you likely know, there has been some controversy from exponents of the Hindu religion about what they call HiRez's "pornographic" depiction of her. If you web search Kali images and you will see there really in no validity to this protest or at least the same could be said for how Hindus have depicted her themselves. Let's face it, Destruction is just so sexy. Frankly, I thought they would sooner have protested all the arms the Smite Kali is missing!

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ok I like your idea, but *all* of that the closer you get to death? She already has enough lifesteal to duel anyone ever early game.

also, 2 junglers doesn't really work, because EFFICIENT junglers, as in GOOD ones, will clear out the entire jungle, and thus with 2, it means you have to split the jungle, losing much gold and experience. Your only terrifying part is your ganks, but at the sacrifice of your carry, in a 2v1 lane. Literally neith HAS to be your carry as she's the only safe enough one, and against a combo like athena+apollo or sobek+anhur she's done too.

And the passive is not underpowered, nor what make her bad. She's absolutely amazing with her passive. 5% innate lifesteal is amazing as a jungler, and the 25%, while you must be low, makes ner not lose a duel unless they have a gimmick (, , etc). What makes her bad is she has no initation. Her ganks involve popping 1 and running headfirst at someone. She is the only god in the GAME with no leap OR CC. No slows. No stuns. No anything. Only one. The only thing making her better than arachne and bastet is her sheer damage. But her ultimate is underwhelming, too, it's used more as a purification beads type of things than damage.

TL;DR - Reason for no 2 junglers, her passive is fine, her lack of initation/cc and bad ult are not.

-Demolibium

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the point of her ult is to do damage over a wide area. but the damage that it does sucks

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Raventhor, I really appreciate your comments. Thanks! I hear what you are saying, and in the main I think you must be right, but you need to consider what you are saying a little, too. She has no initiation and her ultimate is little more than a fancy string of purification beads. That's a better argument than I made for her needing to be reworked! :) Moreover, I think there is a case for saying her 5% innate lifesteal is weak when you consider Freya's beads give her give her 15% all the time, while her initiation and ultimate lay down the law. Sure, when she gets under 25%, she goes toe to toe with just about anyone when the extra 20% lifesteal triggers, but it is an extremely negative capability. If her ult did any damage, people would have to sweat Kali a bit, and I would have nothing to say.

As for the *all*, Yes, I think she should get all of that, but I'm not saying how much of each she should get, and I am not saying it all should just added to what she is. Her lifesteal buff doesn't need to get so high under. All I am saying is that she should be "reworked" to give her enough of each to be competitive, and I have no idea what those numbers would look like. I just like that her "thing" should be that the closer she gets to destruction the harder she is to destroy, but I really don't think it should all or any of it needs to wait until she is under 25% before it kicks in. It is just too negative. It should be scaled in. I'm not suggesting she should be OP in anyway, but she is at a serious disadvantage against too many as it is. Maybe her #1, Rage, should be a leap instead of a dash with a little area damage and knockup or slow? I don't really know, and I know I don't know. When I make it sound as though I do, it is done tongue-in-cheek. That's why I really do like the comments from more experienced and better players such as yourself. So thanks again, and thanks for liking my idea, and recognizing that Kali is in need of some sort of buff.

One additional thought: It is possible I am totally out to lunch. I have been there before, but I just do not think people are getting my half jungle idea. It does not need to "replace" the current one jungle method. I think it could be another way to go and a more viable one than people think. I think people have their head to far up the current meta to see the jungle for the trees. I am saying I don't think laners necessarily need to farm as hard as most currently think, IF you can SUPPRESS the enemy farm even more. What matters is they don't get more far than you. Under the current meta, you have two in one lane, right? And you have a solo lane, right? The solo lane often needs support from the jungler, right? How do two exist and one lane and not get under-farmed? They have to do other stuff, no? There is only so much available farm in and out of the jungle, true? It has to be divided up somehow, yes? What is the difference how it is divided up, as long it is divided up efficiently and fairly? Even now, the mid will run into the jungle to pick up a buff and more XP when he has a chance, and he will rotate to another lane if opportunity arises to help out there. All I am saying is this should be the meta in every lane, and if it was there would be no reason your part-time junglers couldn't farm a bit in lane.
Against special lane combos as you mentioned, what you have is gank power, and I see no reason it cannot be effective. So your two 1/2 junglers coordinate a gank n the enemy mid..goodbye! Your mid and one of the junglers rotate immediately over to the problem lane...goodbye problem. With two part-time junglers and the laners helping out a bit, the jungle ought to be kept in order far more easily and quickly, allowing a team to arrange more early 2v1 and 3v2 situations, or at least, than is my contention. I guess we won't know until it is tried by a competent team. Change is always so hard!

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EnjoiDank, I don't need my ult to have purification beads. I can buy those cheap, right? Amen, bro.

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Kali could probably do with a complete and total rework in everything, really.

According to what I read about the controversy behind Kali, HiRez needs to change her appearance. When dealing with Hindus, the primary cause of the controversy is that Kali looks a little too pornographic. Additionally, since HiRez buddied up with that Chinese company a while back, there will be new requests for a graphic change on account of the skulls adorning her belt. I read somewhere that its culturally insensitive to show bones in Chinese culture so the skulls would have to go.

Beyond that, her skills itself could use a little more enhancement to make her worthy of competitive play. Far as I've seen when playing against her in a few games, nothing she can do can save her from crushing deaths at the hands of just about any god. Hell even Loki makes short work of her while she's using her ult.

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Oh I wasn't saying she wasn't bad, trust me, I agree! I was simply listing *why* she's bad, apart from what you said.

As for now, I'm in a match, but I'll read your thought out explanation in a bit xD so yes, rework her please!

-Demolibium

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Eminent (158)
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Pizzarui: Didn't know that about the bones. Interesting. Otherwise her depiction here isn't pornographic at all and, in terms of modesty or the lack thereof, not far from traditional depictions. What they need to rework isn't her art.

I have been thinking about what they should do without changing her too radically. Her ult is not well thought out. It is supposed to be an AEO type, but unlike other AEO's, it doesn't hit everywhere at once, but she has to run around hitting what she can. It is too easy to escape. I has to do more than end CC. It needs to impart a slow so she can stay on a target.

Raventhor also pointed out that she has no effective initiation, that most people just press 1, run in and hope for the best with 2,4. Her 1 is just a sprint. It increases her move speed and power for 5 seconds. When it is active, her basic attack, 2, and ult all cause bleed damage. Having all of that tied to her 1 in really limiting. It as a 15s cooldown, way too long.

One of the worst things about Kali is how mana hungry she is early game. There is no good way around it; Meditation is a necessity. That's also limiting. Creeping Curse works well for her because she has no cc at all. It fits her ult, slowing things down to get something out of it. But if you get Meditation and Curse, then she can't get beads or aegis, so basically she has to saver her ult to use like beads so she has some chance of escaping.

I think she needs a slow. Perhaps her 1 sprint could be a a leap that imparts a slow and some damage on impact in a small area in which she can pop her ult? It could function as an escape at times, too, which would be more effective than the move speed buff.

Or maybe she could throw her knifes and if she hits they stick and slow, allowing her to teleport to them, like Ne Zhe's sash or Thor's Hammer. She needs a way to get in close effectively, and a way to escape other than her ult.

As it is, there is no way to build her that doesn't leave a terrible weakness somewhere. I can't help liking the character and wanting better for her.

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Kali Reworked!

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