Toast's Tier List :: Page 2

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@Greenevers I thought so. Your post reminded me - I'm pretty sure AMC would be better off in A, but realistically A - or B. I'd also have Ares as A - or B if this is a conquest list.

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Ah Muzen Cab is the only hunter with no escape other than Artemis. Artemis has hard CC as well as CC immunity to help her out while AMC has none of this. Every single hunter is a safer pick and can usually deal more guaranteed damage.

I put Ares in A. You could put him in A- but such a difference is trivial.

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Alright let's see if I can answer a few of these while Toast is out doing homework :D

wrote:

True, I underestimated her mid-game damage. Poseidon seems a bit too underwhelming to be put next to her, now. Sure, he can destroy teams, but Scylla can, as well. He does have a strong early game, but his mid-late game isn't that good. A tier?

I think everyone can agree Poseidon is a bit of a pubstomp god. ie: good in casuals, not nearly as good in competitive scenarios. I personally HATE playing against Poseidon as a midlaner, but, he's definitely not as good as Scylla.

wrote:

But...640 damage + 90% scaling at level nine! In addition, he has global presence, doesn't fall off as hard as other early game junglers thanks to his scaling and utility, and his passive gives him an extra 196 potential ability damage.

I don't know, really. It would feel really weird to put Thor in S+ tier, but you can't argue with his performance.

wrote:

Yeah, he's a very high-risk/high-reward god. However, if he doesn't miss his scythe, and he's the one who gets the kill, then expect him to snowball. Just like Zeus, he needs to be played properly to be good.

The problem with gods like Thanatos and Zeus, is while they are "high risk, high reward" there are a lot of picks that, well, are basically "low risk, high reward" (Thor comes to mind)

wrote:

Also, I love Neith, but I think she should moved down from the A+ tier. Her damage is mediocre compared to other hunters, her ult isn't good in team fights, and her heal is bad in 1v1 situations. Her early game is strong, but she falls behind in the mid-late game, and while she does great against escape-less gods, that's more of a niche than anything.

Haven't seen Neith in a while, but A+ does seem.. well, high.

wrote:

Question - is this a tier list for every game mode or just conquest?

Of all of these it is perhaps most odd [to me] that Aphrodite is S rank yet Hel is B rank. Both are countered in the same way, both have good utilities aside from heal [knock back on aphro + stun, CC cleanse on Hel + more damage.] Was also abit shocked to see Chang'e at only A considering shes so good, but then Chang'e is my main so that's probably why I think that. :p

Aside from that I think it's a very solid list by and large, there isn't too much I'd be changing around. I'd probably be tempted to bump Janus, Apollo and Mercury, perhaps even Bacchus up to A rank and move Awilix down to B rank.

I'm assuming Toast made this with Conquest in mind.

As for Aphro vs Hel, well, Aphro arguably has an ult that can completely turn teamfights, her 3 is a hybrid dmg/heal ability (Hel has to switch stances, which is a bit of a delay), not to mention Aphro has an on demand stun.

wrote:

A bunch of gods you placed outside of A tier I'm a bit skeptical on. Gods like Kali, Janus, Ymir, Neith, Guan Yu, AMC, Hou Yi, and even Mercury should pretty much all be respectively in A tier. Janus definitely doesn't deserve the A- treatment, I'd put him in S-. Explain why Ymir is S tier? Or AMC S-? Or.. Ares S-?

I agree with all of those being bumped up to A tier except for Guan Yu and Hou Yi. Both of them seem to be the bottom picks for their respective roles.

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wrote:

As for Aphro vs Hel, well, Aphro arguably has an ult that can completely turn teamfights, her 3 is a hybrid dmg/heal ability (Hel has to switch stances, which is a bit of a delay), not to mention Aphro has an on demand stun.

True. But Hel has a cleanse on 2 that can turn team fights, or be rotated into a de-buff. She also has movement speed on her 3 and much higher burst damage [with larger AoE] than Aphro. Her healing is also more bursty rather than gradual, and AoE rather than single-target.

I'm not saying one is clearly better than the other, they both have their uses and limits. To me they're equal, so it's weird to see hel ranked so lowly whilst aphro is so high on the list.

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wrote:

and her heal is bad in 1v1 situations.

the heal is but you forget the attack speed reduction (I only learned there was a reduction after know your enemy XD) it's only 30% but that's removing the from their build (looking on AS standpoint)

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Coming from an ADC main I feel that neith is rated way to highly, her escape while fast to take off leaves a smart enemy knowing exactly where you are going to land as it is very slow. On top of this she doesn't scale well at all in to late game. She has no steroid to allow her to kill or push towers. Because she doesn't scale well she doesnt have that many favorable matchups. A perfect example of this is Ullr who literally has an ability to counter everyone of hers in a boxing match, has more favorable matchups can push a wave just as effectively without usuing his escape to clear, scales better into late game and has more favorable matchups. Is that innate disadvantage to almost every ADC worth less than her global ultimate?

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wrote:

Neith does have utility though. Her escape is large and has a slow, her healing also de-buffs enemy attack speed. Her ult is global and great for picking off near-dead targets / even engaging on the odd occassion.

I'm at mastery 8 with her. She's a simple God to play with nuance at higher levels [she can effectively lay traps that are only triggered when she desires, which is arguably better than Artemis in that regard.] She's one of the better ADC's at zoning and whilst her global presence is hardly as useful as Apollo's, it certainly has it's advantages too.

Due to her accessibility as an ADC, safety, sustain, zoning potential and very large aoe damage output when she pulls off a trap combo, I'd be very happy with her being placed in A, possibly higher. She also has some decent-ish engage/poke potential with her 2, giving her an upper hand when boxing an adc 1v1 sometimes.

The only regard she falls short in, as you've pointed out, is a lack of hard CC [such as Ullr] or damage/speed steroid. She certainly isn't a hyper-carry ADC usually, but she's still a very solid pick in my view.

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I did some more thinking and updated it again.

The A tier is really small for some reason...

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Still as an adc your main job is to deal damage at a sustained rate, which is why Xbalanque and Arteimis are some of the best, with Neith you have to build the team around her in that you have to have someone else to win the late game like a Kali or a Scylla. A character that you build the team around is by definition a c to b tier pick. Not saying that she can't be played extremely well but in most places there are better picks that with the same skill level player using both characters will out perform the person playing Neith. While utility is nice having an Artemis show up in a teamfight drop her hot and sequentially delete 2 or three characters from the enemy team before they can react is why most analysts rate neith very low. I would argue that she is the lowest pick for the adc role. That and she can't jump over walls with her escape meaning that she isn't as mobile as say Anhur or any ADC with a jump while still being able to be grabbed by awilix so you don't have the upsides of a dash.

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wrote:

Neith can absolutely deal damage at a sustained rate, whilst also bringing some different utilities to the stage. For example, her utilities are good for winning the lane vs another adc. Making the opponents ADC under-fed is an excellent way to win the game. Most Gods can carry when fed, even hyper-carries can't carry when under-fed. Neith isn't typically a hyper-carry pick, but she's a very strong ADC pick regardless imo. You aren't going to go 20/0 with her, but you're probably going to win the lane without feeding, and you're still going to have enough damage and utility to be relevant in the late game.

wrote:

I did some more thinking and updated it again.

The A tier is really small for some reason...

I agree with most of your new list. Still wouldn't have AMC that high up, he's B+ rank at best, imo. I'd bump Chang'e up to A rank, she matches up well against most picks and brings a strong ult and poke damage to the table. I'd probably put Ares in B rank and Agni in S+ rank. I'd knock Nox down to B rank and shift Mercury to A rank. I'd also put Hel in A rank rather than B+, but that's less important. I'd be tempted to shift Tyr and Kali down to A rank too, as well as possibly Sylvanus.

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