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Ymir: is he any good?

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Forum » General Discussion » Ymir: is he any good? 20 posts - page 2 of 2
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » October 27, 2014 1:44pm | Report
No god has hard CC on 3 or more abilities. Having hard CC for a long duration on one ability and soft CC on 2 others is quite a lot of CC.

Ymir's main con is his mobility and you could say his utility. His damage skyrockets and zoning is great.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » October 27, 2014 3:15pm | Report
Actually Apollo has 3 hard CC's, Geb does, and Hercules does.

And while most do not have 3, many have 2. Ymir's wall is NOT a hard CC. It is a positional-based CC. It's similar to Odin's ult - it's not a hard CC, as the enemy still regains control of movement AND attacking. Hard CC renders you unable to attack or move freely. Wall negates neither of those - it simply diverts your course.

And that mobility is exactly why he's not the highest tier pick. I'm not saying he's bad, again, but that's why he's not remotely close to the top tier picks
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » October 27, 2014 4:50pm | Report
Raventhor wrote:

Actually Apollo has 3 hard CC's, Geb does, and Hercules does.

And while most do not have 3, many have 2. Ymir's wall is NOT a hard CC. It is a positional-based CC. It's similar to Odin's ult - it's not a hard CC, as the enemy still regains control of movement AND attacking. Hard CC renders you unable to attack or move freely. Wall negates neither of those - it simply diverts your course.

And that mobility is exactly why he's not the highest tier pick. I'm not saying he's bad, again, but that's why he's not remotely close to the top tier picks

Ah sorry, you're right I missed quite a few gods. But I wasn't talking about Ymir's wall for his CC. Frost Breath is his hard CC, Glacial Strike and Shards of Ice are his soft CC's (slows). If you look at an official diagram for the god analysis of Ymir, his crowd control is one of his strong points. I would grab beads if a Ymir is ahead in a game or is on the opposite team in arena.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » October 27, 2014 5:38pm | Report
Oh I absolutely agree, but in conquest that lack of hard CC really hurts in laning phase. Early game everyone is even - that's obvious and designed. No one has an advantage early, so damage, for the most part, is dead even, thus things that stop your attacks are more powerful. The slows are strong, and in arena Ymir is actually a top tier pick, but a god who needs to spend 900 gold to even START to do something in laning phase is pretty meh.

I want to be proven wrong - Ymir was my first mastered god and the first god I ever played - but there's not much he brings to the table that someone else doesn't do in a better or more numerous way(s)
-Demolibium

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » October 27, 2014 6:38pm | Report
He doesn't lack hard CC... A 1.25s stun is still pretty good early game. And when the stun duration increases later in the game? When your teammates will be doing more damage in shorter amounts of time?

Also uh.. Not sure wut you're talking about but gods definitely have advantages and disadvantages early game and late game respectively.

Kali early game?
Bastet early game?
Thanatos early game?
Fenrir early game?
Nox early game (if yu tried her)?
Chronos early game?
Hades early game?
Ares early game?
Tyr early game?
Osiris early game?
Xbal early game?

Sorry I hate to make a list but early game is not even. If you're talking about duo lane respectively it could still apply to an enemy jungler, rotations, or the support/xbal. Most hunters are pretty even early game except for maybe xbal (tremendous late game). And supports definitely have different advantages in the early game.

Anyways when I think of it there are different types of supports. Gods like Ares and Ymir are really meant to deal a lot of damage but are easily countered. That's their main problem. A simple beads, aegis, magi's, robe, or sprint will shut them down. Gods like Athena, Geb, and ***bha allow them to support their team in a more direct way.

Ymir does things better than most gods. In terms of damage, defense, and crowd control. It's his cons that don't allow him to be a top pick in the current meta. If you play Ymir right, you could even solo/mid him. Although I've beaten quite a bunch of Ymir mid's fairly easily.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » October 27, 2014 8:13pm | Report
I'm talking duo lane, all hunters are hunters. I don't know when the last time you saw an osiris+hades duo lane was, but yeah.

All of the hunters will be doing the same damage with their auto attacks, give or take a very small amount for a buff such as xbalanque's. Thus, if the two hunters are duking it out, the one who is allowed to auto attack, is the one who will win. So yes, in that regard early game is even, and if you look at my context, you'd see that.

And the stun is not nearly as good as MULTIPLE chained CC, especially when it's so tied to blink and so counterable with beads. You know what an Ymir does when someone has beads? Kinda just walks around and hopes to do something, MAYBE use an ability that will almost guaranteed miss. He's one of the few, if not only, guardians who is solely useful as a bodyblock post initiation. Compare that to someone like Sobek or Geb, and you'll see the difference.

Obviously he has his strengths: every god has a strength (even if the strength is being a jack of all trades, like Ullr), but sometimes those strengths don't outweigh the weaknesses.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HolyPudding » October 28, 2014 3:02am | Report
Greenevers wrote:

No god has hard CC on 3 or more abilities. Having hard CC for a long duration on one ability and soft CC on 2 others is quite a lot of CC.

Ymir's main con is his mobility and you could say his utility. His damage skyrockets and zoning is great.


Sylvanus. He has 2 roots, a pull and a knockup.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by festive1 » October 28, 2014 4:42am | Report
I pretty much agree with everything that Greenevers has said so far, but I guess I can give a brief overview of Supports, in order of goodness (In current meta of SPL, mostly NA)

Geb


Geb is by far the best (in terms of meta) and most picked (if not banned) support in the SPL. If Geb hasn't been banned, he should be first pick. This is because of many things; he has good mobility, insane peeling, best initiate in game (for support) and overall good CC, as well as THE SHEILD.

Athena


Athena is usually the second top pick; her global presence is strong and that taunt is just too good. She does lack team fight initiate, though she can either blink then taunt, catching many of the enemy team off guard, or approach the enemy and pull them away from the team with her taunt. She is good, just not as all around good as Geb.

Bacchus


Bacchus is typically picked if the two above gods aren't, he is the most damaging support (Ymir does more in numbers, but Bacchus can do more in game) He has good disrupt with his Bellyflop, and has an Okay stun with good protections. He has great secure with his abilities and is extremely tanky.

Ymir


Ymir isn't the most common pick, but he is definitely doable, he has goodish initiate and strong peel and CC. Where he really lacks is mobility, he has absolutely no way of rotating to help an ally or defend a tower. He can also be a bit clumsy with his ult and wall when trying to zone effectively.

Kumbhakarna


Kumbhakarna isn't the most popular Support but he provides good CC and as well as set up with his Mez, and his Ult, with which he can get Allies to easily land abilities.

Pretty much all other supports aren't picked that often (Even ***bha is a bit uncommon), but really, A support doesn't have to be a Guardian, can you remember when healer supports were in, and now look, Fenrir support has become a thing. Well, I hope this was helpful. Happy Supporting. And Carrying.
You can check out my cool Ymir guide by clicking here
Thanks Lprats for making an awesome Ymir drawing :)
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by festive1 » October 28, 2014 4:44am | Report
Raventhor wrote:

I'm talking duo lane, all hunters are hunters. I don't know when the last time you saw an osiris+hades duo lane was, but yeah.



Arachne + Hades

Vulcan + Ymir
You can check out my cool Ymir guide by clicking here
Thanks Lprats for making an awesome Ymir drawing :)
If you want to look at my old signature click by clicking here
PM Me if you want me to try to make signature for you

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » October 28, 2014 6:41am | Report
HolyPudding wrote:



Sylvanus. He has 2 roots, a pull and a knockup.


I know, I said I looked over quite a few gods lmao
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