A Discussion on Hastened Fatalis and Reworking It (and Gods)

Forum » Theory Crafting » A Discussion on Hastened Fatalis and Reworking It (and Gods) 17 posts - page 1 of 2

So we've been talking a lot about lately. Got me to thinking, how would I change it if I could?

Well, let's go along the assumption that we want it to be unavailable to hunters. It could turn into a melee-only item. This way, it allows melee gods to be a threat close in, without getting blown up by hunters keeping them at range. Right now, it's essential on and maybe , but less so on almost anyone else. How would we make it more enticing to possibly be picked up by other assassins, and maybe some warriors, without it making a god like OP? How might we make some adjustments to other gods?

One way would be to just completely remove it from the game, but that makes this discussion less interesting. So let's look at other avenues.

Fatalis itself:

Do we keep it universal (magical/physical)? Or do we make it physical only by adding physical power to it? I'd argue that it could be made physical melee only, and just make some revisions to 's, 's, and ' kits. We'll discuss that in a bit.

For now, let's give it some power. I would say this would be an item that might be used as an alternative to , , etc. We could keep the move speed (10%). Also, a bit of pen (10 flat) is fine...it's a weaker situational alternative to SCS's passive, which gives up to 30 physical protection reduction. In order to have some synergy with the passive (not have it work against itself like ), we'll want it to keep some attack speed. Right now it's at 25%. I'd say we might drop it 5% to an even 20%. And finally, give it a bit of power. Say 25-30 physical power. Of course, we could make it more interesting than just a flat power boost, but I'm not going to think about that for now. Since it's gained some stats from current, but it's reduced its purchasing audience, I'd say keep the price for now (2600 gold), or maybe make it just 100 higher. Before you scream, yes, I have some nerf ideas. So, to summarize:

25-30 physical power (melee only)
10 flat pen
20% attack speed
10% move speed
Same passive
2600 gold

This doesn't, of course, stop some gods from getting both SCS and Fatalis, for example. So maybe this isn't a good stat set. Maybe we take out the standard move speed, but give added move speed while the passive is active, giving sticking power, but not too much mobility when not engaged. Or maybe we drop the power to just 15.

Anyway, those are ideas for the item. How about some gods?

Right now, this is a straight up buff for Fatalis when it comes to . It's also an essential item for her. So let's give her a nerf to compensate.

Her attack speed progression is 1 / 0.5 / 0.5. This is why is so powerful on her. But we don't want to kill Qin's...it's already somewhat of a weaker build focus when it comes to hunters, some of whom still can utilize it in more power/pen focused builds. So how about we adjust the progression to 1 / 0.6 / 0.6...or maybe just a bit more. I think 0.6 is a good start. Other things could be adjusted if necessary. Maybe make the duration on 4/4/5/5/6 seconds.

As a magical god, she won't be able to get Fatalis. Without it, she's toast, unless her kit is drastically adjusted. Here's my biggest proposal. Give her a Fatalis effect within . It's only active when is active. But we have to go a bit deeper than that. At least, once it's active, a god like can't just cancel it on her. But she IS subject to other CC that can completely stop her for a while. So how about we increase the CD from 11 seconds to 14 seconds, but increase the duration as well. Duration from 6 seconds to 8 seconds. Too long? Okay, you've convinced me...let's drop the slow on it, and we'll decrease the bonus damage.

Part of her whole burst effect is the direct tie and reliance to . Let's break that reliance apart a bit more. First thing would be to change CD/duration as well. Let's cut the CD and duration both. CD down from 11 seconds to 8 seconds. Duration down from 6 seconds to 3 seconds. Too much of a nerf on duration? Oh, where was that slow...oh, how about here? When is active, basics slow the target by 20% for 1.5 seconds. Depending on how powerful that is, we can adjust the bonus damage from there.

To summarize:

:

CD: 11 -> 14 seconds
Duration: 6 -> 8 seconds
Passive: Fatalis effect...NO SLOW
Bonus damage: 20/30/40/50/60 (+15% scaling) -> 10/20/30/40/50 (+30% scaling)

CD: 11 -> 8 seconds
Duration: 6 -> 3 seconds
Passive: 20% slow for 1.5 seconds (refreshes only, doesn't stack)
Bonus damage: 40/55/70/85/100 (+25% scaling) -> 60/75/90/105/120 (+30% scaling)

So she gains an immediate Fatalis effect, and her wave clear gets a bit of a duration boost to help early clear just a bit (1-2 extra hits in the early game) but does less damage to compensate...we still want her to be more of a late-game carry. She doesn't get that early pen from Fatalis, which also stunts her early game a bit. And she doesn't get that early added movespeed, making it more difficult for her to chase unless she picks up another movespeed item.

But now it frees up a slot for something else. Maybe she can get added movespeed from a . Or she can consider a survivability option. I dunno.

And, it separates the / pairing a bit, which is pretty big.

Just thoughts...I'm sure it needs some major tweaking, but I like the basic idea.

Conclusion

So now, we won't have hunters making Fatalis OP/required to counter-build if the enemy builds it. And we can always tweak the gods to compensate.

Thoughts on this? Do you have your own ideas? As you can tell, I just like thinking about things, so if you're willing to share, I'd love to listen.

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Mythical (400)
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Nice write up.

I especially agree with the Freya section where we remove the slow from Pulse and add the Fatalis effect.

Also, how do you think should be tweaked since is also a nice item on him?

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Why do you hate Baka so much?!

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Okay...tonight, I'll target ideas for . Also, I personally think can do without Fatalis. I like CDR/power/pen on him. Only basic attack speed item I'd probably consider on him would be , probably.

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Mythical (400)
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Talk about Baka and then I'll send my feedback...

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Note that this idea is based on getting rid of Fatalis altogether.

So this one is a bit difficult, without a drastic overhaul. His ult, , already has a slow and cripple, he gets CC immunity, and the cone attack for 6 seconds. That ult is stacked in terms of the things it does.

Tying it to , which is his very obvious bread and butter, would be unimaginative and would need further adjustments to his damage...I don't want to do that, because that true damage is a neat thing and sets him apart...don't want it nerfed.

Combining it with makes 0 sense.

This leaves either an interesting tie in to his passive, , or it'll have to go with his mobility ability (conjunction junction, sorry, just came to mind), .

So...if we were to do the easier application, I would say could be changed as follows:

Damage: 100/160/220/280/340 (+60% scaling) -> 100/150/200/250/300 (+50% scaling)
Get rid of the physical protection debuff...replace it with the Fatalis effect, ONLY if it connects with an enemy god.
Radius: 15 -> 25 or 30 units
Duration: 3 seconds, + 1.5 for every extra enemy god hit
CD: 12 -> 16 seconds

This makes this ability a lot more interesting. Makes him use up his escape to go all in for an attack. Has some teamfight functionality, due to larger radius and added Fatalis duration. Due to that functionality and the larger radius, it gets a slight nerf to damage.

Let's try if we were to add it to instead. Right now, it triggers when he gets a god kill and lasts for 10 seconds...he gets 10% attack speed per stack and move speed per stack, max 3 stacks. 30% attack and move speed is pretty large, but very very situational as it triggers on only his own kills. So...

Attack speed + Move speed stays the same (10%), but no stacks...refresh only.
Each kill OR assist grants him 3 seconds of Fatalis effect starting with the next enemy he damages. This can stack up to 3 times (e.g. he gets a kill and then an assist in a teamfight, it can give him 6 seconds the next time he damages an enemy.

Okay, so I'm less certain about this one, especially that stacking effect...but again, I like it in theory.

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Mythical (400)
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And alright...here's an idea for incorporating it for ...single and simple.

: when dragons are summoned, additional Fatalis effect added for 1 second (refresh only) each time he connects. No slow anymore. Possibly a slight nerf to the damage.

Maybe a possible slow added instead to .

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Mythical (400)
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wrote:

: when dragons are summoned, additional Fatalis effect added for 1 second (refresh only) each time he connects. No slow anymore. Possibly a slight nerf to the damage..

Quoted:

Backpedal penalty = 40% reduced†
Strafing penalty = 20% reduced†
Ranged Basic Attack penalty = 50% reduced†
Melee Basic Attack penalty = 35% reduced†
†These numbers are based on player experimentation. No official values have been given.

the slow from is almost enough to provide a fatalis effect

another option for fatalis making fatalis less OP on ranged is giving it a flat/percentual movementspeed buff. Or half the effect on ranged (so they would either get a shorter duration or less movementspeed back (the last one would be better IMO)

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Just thought I would leave this here.

https://twitter.com/HiRezAjax/status/883454767107801088

Rifts of Chaos - Chronos Conquest Guide

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With Bakasura and . Could give him increased move speed or short fatalis effect with it. It would be like he is absorbing its move speed. Just a thought.

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A Discussion on Hastened Fatalis and Reworking It (and Gods)

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