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Ichaival on Bellona(arena only...for now)

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Ichaival on Bellona(arena only...for now) 14 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by silentshell » May 14, 2019 6:15am | Report
I was talking to Bran recently about the viability of Ichaival on Bellona. He had discussed with me that it could work possibly with a hybrid build. I have been tinkering with it, but I am not wanting to go full on attack like I have with another off meta AS build I have run in the past. My 1 item will be Ninja Tabi I want basically vanilla defensive utility early for both magical and physical protections. I am looking at basically 2 with a slim shot at 3 items. For sure probably Gauntlet of Thebes and Hide of the Urchin. In closer matches where I don't want to deviate from the concept, maybe add in Mantle of Discord. Whenever possible I want to keep it to Thebes and Urchin at the 2 and three. If I am able to just use those two defensive items then i'd go Masamune then(I have started selling boots and getting Hastened Katana but still trying out if better to sell and buy here or at the end of the build) Ichaiva and lastly Stone Cutting Sword Regardless of when I sold boots final build would look like
edited:( Ninja Tabi Gauntlet of Thebes Hide of the Urchin Masamune Ichaival Stone Cutting Sword somewhere after the masamune sell tabi for Hastened Katana)
depending on if I want to be a little more defensive with more magic damage coming in I would drop scs or if more physical I would drop masamune from the build and add Mantle of Discord at 5 or 6 depending on how the match was going.
In way overloaded physical/magical damage would switch one of the two or instead of mantle add a magical or physical protect item there. or put it early and put urchin later.



Please be gentle.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Gulfwulf » May 14, 2019 6:28am | Report
Ich's a great boxing item, but I'd only consider it if I wasn't the only tank and the enemy had 2 or more AA attackers. I think it would be useful mid to late provided you were able to stay in your enemies' faces to fully stack it. By the way, we are talking about Arena, right? I wouldn't recommend it in Conquest.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by silentshell » May 14, 2019 7:01am | Report
Gulfwulf wrote:

Ich's a great boxing item, but I'd only consider it if I wasn't the only tank and the enemy had 2 or more AA attackers. I think it would be useful mid to late provided you were able to stay in your enemies' faces to fully stack it. By the way, we are talking about Arena, right? I wouldn't recommend it in Conquest.



yeah, Arena. In the title :P

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I need to rework it if I am going to continue looking at a possible viable build for it in arena. building it late I get online too late to really get much use out of it or be much help in team fights. I was just trying to make sure I was somewhat tanky first so I didn't leave teams hanging.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Gulfwulf » May 14, 2019 7:45am | Report
That was for Kriega's sake since he tends to think everything should be focused on Conquest. ;)
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Devampi » May 14, 2019 9:15am | Report
Doesn't ich power stacks also proc on minions?
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by silentshell » May 14, 2019 9:51am | Report
Gulfwulf wrote:

That was for Kriega's sake since he tends to think everything should be focused on Conquest. ;)



lol
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by silentshell » May 14, 2019 9:54am | Report
Devampi wrote:

Doesn't ich power stacks also proc on minions?

It says basic attacks but doesn't specify opponents for effects to kick in. so, yeah.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Gulfwulf » May 14, 2019 10:02am | Report
Ich processes on minions. In fact, you should try to stack it before you attack an enemy god.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » May 14, 2019 10:02am | Report
@Dev, yes, Ich stacks on anything.

Silent, so mostly I think it's just a situation where you still need to get to a point where you can make a build on the fly. It's okay to have some plans in place before the match even begins, but you can sort of make adjustments to a base build as soon as you see the enemy comp.

I would not suggest a long delay on getting standard MS (at least 18% e.g. Tabi). If you're insistent on getting Hastened Katana first, then IMO that should be followed immediately thereafter by further MS, whether from Masamune or Stone Cutting Sword. Not Katana 1st, and Masa 4th. Too long of a stretch there.

I will also reiterate that protections just for the sake of protections doesn't provide you with utility you can take advantage of...by going double up (Urchin + Thebes) or triple (add Mantle), you have a lot of tankiness, but no real extra function. No Void Shield which gives you and other nearby physical teammates some added pen function. No Pestilence to counter enemy healing. Etc., etc.

Ichaival would be one of those very specialized items that you can only really take advantage of if you've built enough AS to more quickly get stacks, and also specifically to counter multiple enemy basic attackers. Same goes for something like Shogun's Kusari. It's fine if you're the only basic attacker in a general sense cuz it increases your basic attack function while giving you some CDR and some magical protection...but way better if you've got other basic attackers on your team.

Rather than building into Katana first (which is fairly risky in Arena cuz outside of your ult, you don't have much mobility as Bellona), you might do the normal thing and just go into Tabi. After Tabi, get your protections (dual fine here if you want to go Urchin, for example), and THEN start itemizing as you see fit.

Ninja Tabi, Hide of the Urchin, Hastened Katana, Stone Cutting Sword, Shogun's Kusari, Ichaival. This would be against a mostly squishy enemy team (you have low pen, only from SCS), and one that has at least 2 basic attackers (to make Ichaival more directly useful as a counter). 4 AS items mean you'll be able to stack SCS and Ich quickly. You're also not the only tank, and hopefully not the main one.

In a more traditional tanky build where you aren't able to get nearly as much AS, you might have to back out of the basic attack thing from Hastened Katana, and likely Ichaival as well, depending. You could also consider having fun as a hard counter to enemy basic attackers.

Ninja Tabi, Hide of the Urchin, Midgardian Mail, Shogun's Kusari, Ichaival, Witchblade. I'm pretty sure all of those AS slows stack...Midgardian stacks, Ich stacks, and Witch is a flat value, so that should work. If it does, super funny against an enemy Baka or something.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by silentshell » May 14, 2019 1:26pm | Report
Branmuffin17 wrote:

@Dev, yes, Ich stacks on anything.

Silent, so mostly I think it's just a situation where you still need to get to a point where you can make a build on the fly. It's okay to have some plans in place before the match even begins, but you can sort of make adjustments to a base build as soon as you see the enemy comp.

I would not suggest a long delay on getting standard MS (at least 18% e.g. Tabi). If you're insistent on getting Hastened Katana first, then IMO that should be followed immediately thereafter by further MS, whether from Masamune or Stone Cutting Sword. Not Katana 1st, and Masa 4th. Too long of a stretch there.

I will also reiterate that protections just for the sake of protections doesn't provide you with utility you can take advantage of...by going double up (Urchin + Thebes) or triple (add Mantle), you have a lot of tankiness, but no real extra function. No Void Shield which gives you and other nearby physical teammates some added pen function. No Pestilence to counter enemy healing. Etc., etc.

Ichaival would be one of those very specialized items that you can only really take advantage of if you've built enough AS to more quickly get stacks, and also specifically to counter multiple enemy basic attackers. Same goes for something like Shogun's Kusari. It's fine if you're the only basic attacker in a general sense cuz it increases your basic attack function while giving you some CDR and some magical protection...but way better if you've got other basic attackers on your team.

Rather than building into Katana first (which is fairly risky in Arena cuz outside of your ult, you don't have much mobility as Bellona), you might do the normal thing and just go into Tabi. After Tabi, get your protections (dual fine here if you want to go Urchin, for example), and THEN start itemizing as you see fit.

Ninja Tabi, Hide of the Urchin, Hastened Katana, Stone Cutting Sword, Shogun's Kusari, Ichaival. This would be against a mostly squishy enemy team (you have low pen, only from SCS), and one that has at least 2 basic attackers (to make Ichaival more directly useful as a counter). 4 AS items mean you'll be able to stack SCS and Ich quickly. You're also not the only tank, and hopefully not the main one.

In a more traditional tanky build where you aren't able to get nearly as much AS, you might have to back out of the basic attack thing from Hastened Katana, and likely Ichaival as well, depending. You could also consider having fun as a hard counter to enemy basic attackers.

Ninja Tabi, Hide of the Urchin, Midgardian Mail, Shogun's Kusari, Ichaival, Witchblade. I'm pretty sure all of those AS slows stack...Midgardian stacks, Ich stacks, and Witch is a flat value, so that should work. If it does, super funny against an enemy Baka or something.




I wasn't building Hastened Katana first. I indicated that Ninja Tabi was my first item, but that I was trying to figure out if I should sell boots at whatever point I get masamune or scs and get hastened when I have the difference in gold or just wait until build is finished and then sell boots for katana. That last build sounds nice and something I would probably try. I want to try it out as a hybrid build possibility like you mentioned but still make sure I am decently tanky.


it was probably a bit misleading after stating that and then saying final build and listing it. I just meant that regardless of where I sold tabi at, mid or end build that would be the final build I ended up with.
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