Item Discussions: O-Bow vs. Ichaival

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Odysseus' Bow

Price: 1300 (3050)
+40% Attack Speed

PASSIVE

Ichaival

Price: 650 (2400)
+30% Attack Speed

PASSIVE

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Renowned (105)
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After a lot of in-game testing, I've come to a rather unimpressive, but middle road conclusion.

Odysseus's Bow is very bad except in special circumstances as a 6th item. I believe hunters cannot incorportate it into their build well. Certain assassins have the potential to utilize it as a 6th item to turn a single target assassin into having at least mediocre teamfight potential, to transition from the pick-oriented midgame into the teamfight late game. Still, underpowered, but niche.

Ichaival is also very situational - usually only seen picked up when one team has an abundance of physical dealers (solo lane, hunter, assassin, and maybe even a warrior based support like Guan), but it's hard for hunters to pick up, albeit it easier than the bow. They still don't have much room without severely gimping their damage. Assassins can actually REALLY pick this up if they're carry based instead of assassin based. That is, Baka and Merc could pick it up, while someone like Loki might not want to. It's much less niche than Odysseus's Bow, but it's still not good enough to be an end-all be-all purchase in my opinion.

Both have a place, but I think both need tweaks, especially in the former's case.

-Demolibium

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Eminent (158)
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Still working on the coding but what scenarios do you think these two tier three items are for?

I personally would take ichaval with any auto-attack based god and an enemy team with 3+ phys. It works rather effectively. Also viable in 1v1s but I find it to fall off lategame.

Tbh I haven't really tried O-Bow but imo doesn't seem like a great buy. It's passive is nothing special except spreading out your damage.

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Renowned (105)
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You've pretty much answered your own question. I want to buy Ich on more hunters I'm just trying to figure out EXACTLY which item I want to replace it for. 1v1's I can absolutely see it though.

As for O-Bow, I've kinda covered who I'd see it on, like I said, it's very very niche and you should consider it only as a final item, and only situationally then.

-Demolibium

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Eminent (158)
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Sigh.

You don't need to test at all for these items.

ADCs need lifesteal, boots, two crit items, and pen. That leaves literally one gap left.

Two options: Get Executioner and have a sixth item gap, or get Titan's Bane and a third item game.

Renowned (112)
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Now we examine the items in that context.

Odysseus's Bow sucks no matter what anyone says. It takes a child to think that it's a good, or even mediocre item. It's raw garbage. Firstly, getting the item is like getting Malice as your only crit item, unless you're Hun Batz. It's unreliable as ****, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

Second, its effect isn't just mediocre - it's plain awful. Golden Bow gives better stats and AoE damage. This item, statistically, does literally 1/4 the damage of Golden Bow, but with a fancy lightning effect and perhaps more range. If you add crits to the equation, statistically, it does 1/8 damage of Golden Bow on a crit. One-EIGHTH.

And Golden Bow is already considered a garbage item. And now Raventhor wants you to believe it "needs a few tweaks" or "mediocre" or "underpowered but niche." This is a damaging assumption that will literally rot your brain if you swallow it.

As he mentioned, he says it sucks balls on hunters. That's right.

However, unlike what the all-powerful mod says, it also sucks on assassins. Firstly, what the **** would an assassin want with terrible AoE damage (attack speed) over stronger single-target damage (power)? What kind of assassin prefers attack speed over physical power? Even when we examine this item by stats alone, it's already terrible for most assassins.

The only exceptions are Bakasura and maybe Kali and Nemesis.

Bakasura's main damage skill is a on-hit effect, and Bakasura with crits is far better off with Golden Bow, which is still a mediocre item on him. At any rate, Bakasura also builds attack speed, not power, to maximize his on-hit effects, going completely against this item no matter how he builds. Garbage.

Kali? She might be able to use it, but again, melee basic attackers are better off getting items to actually kill their target. In additon, both crits and Sais are terrible with this item. Garbage.

Nemesis? The only way for her to deal damage is through crits and Sais. And this runs into the same problems as Kali. On top of that, Nem simply doesn't have room for this item - lifesteal, penetration, boots, crits, giving her the same problem as the hunters.

In short, this item is complete garbage for both hunters and assassins. Don't believe what anyone says about this item being "underpowered." There's a world of difference between underpowered and garbage.

There is no "place" for this item. It's terrible, completely luck-based, and shows a complete lack of understanding of itemization and the build metas. Do we really want more of the above in Smite? (Or rather, more of what we already have?)

Renowned (112)
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I don't think I'm all powerful dude. If you've paid attention to anything you've ever attacked, I've always said it's an opinion, and I respect your ability to disagree. I'm not trying to brainwash anyone, and surprisingly I have given many arguments in the past. You can disagree with them but don't call me a child.

Since you play league too, let's go back to a previous item that was "garbage". Ravenous Hydra. Junglers and top laners alike would literally laugh at anyone who thought of using it. Only one pro jungler seriously did - Brokenshard. And people mocked him for picking it up on Kha'Zix. And then suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, everyone did. This was before the Bloodthirster changes, too. Nothing at all changed, people just finally decided to test it out, and it was suddenly the go-to lifesteal item for junglers, since most were AD casters with nothing to do between abilities.

I'm not saying I'm anything like them, or that this is even the same case. What I mean to show, is sometimes the community DOES agree that an item is garbage. And most of the time they're right. But you still have the right to an opinion on an item as long as you don't just scream "I'm right, you're wrong", which by the way, I absolutely don't do. I can see merit in the item, and that's just how I view it. It's a personal opinion, and I won't pass it off as more than so.

I'm not coming here to force people to use the items or show that I'm better than everyone, I'm just tossing in my two cents. I don't know where you get the idea that I think I'm all powerful or that only my opinion matters, but I'm sorry if I've ever come off that way, it's certainly not my intention.

-Demolibium

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Eminent (158)
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Ichaival is better than the piece of manure that is the above, but it's still bad.

I mean, since the price was increased, you're essentially buying money for stats. 30% attack speed, 30 physical power, and -30 physical power was great for <2k gold. Now, it isn't. So for all those people who'd like to point out my supposed hypocrisy for saying this was a good item, shove it in your mouth.

Firstly, this is an item that MUST be used for the power reduction. Otherwise, it's completely outclassed by any other attack speed item, like Fatalis or the Executioner. So it's already garbage right outside the bat outside of its very niche role.

And that role is for dueling. No support in the game will ever get this item, and neither would bruisers. Which means the only people who can take this are going to be squishy damage dealers, or duelists.

This item is ****ing awful for all assassins except Baka, Kali and Nemesis, because all of the others rely on burst damage and few autos. They only get the benefit of 30% attack speed, which isn't a benefit at all.

ADCs can all use this item, generally speaking.

The biggest problem with this item on everyone is that you need the target to sit still and box with you for a while to get any sort of noticable benefit from its passive. // doesn't care about losing 10 physical power as he /aimed strike/'s you to death.

So in other words, it's only good against enemy ADCs, and ironically enough, the assassins who would get this item.

In Smite'e enviroment, sustained damage means nothing. Enemy damage dealers are killed by CCing them to death and nuking their frozen corpses, and maybe, maybe, you'll get a duel once in a millennium. You will never get a chance to use this passive where it matters outside the laning phase 99% of the time.

In the laning phase, this item can be useful. But why would you get this item, and for who? Junglers, who are already starved for gold and need quick kills, not duels? ADCs, who prefer building crits or lifesteal or CDR or pen? An item that falls off within five minutes of finishing it, an item that's pointless against 3/5 of the enemy team?

It's garbage. It's trash. Plain and simple. No role, no niche, nothing.

"Warrior supports" all use ability damage, each and every one, along with the slow from Heavy Hammer. No one cares about their auto damage, and most of them build full tank, making the power decrease meaningless.

As a final item, it's worthless due to the nature of Smite's teamfights. Tell me, when on earth can you land three autos on a target where it matters? People, late game, can DIE in three autos. Who can apply this item consistently and use it to support his team?

This item isn't used by ADCs for the same reason Black Cleaver isn't used: They're more focused on staying alive rather than sticking to a single target.

On assassins, I already explained.

And bruisers can't build this item thanks to how all bruisers are ability-based dudes.

/rant

Renowned (112)
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Let me use a direct comparison to a very similar item in Dawngate: Discipline.

This item grants attack speed, CDR, move speed, and armor, and reduces the power of enemies hit by 10.

From ANY hit, from ANY god.

It's stats make it good on virtually anyone. Mages can use the armor and CDR and move speed. Bruisers can use the everything, along with tanks. ADCs and assassins are less adept but still usable, especially the ones that have AoE abilities like Varion.

This item can be upgraded to reduce attack speed or reduce damage (30% attack speed reduction vs 10% damage reduction). Either way, both make it useful even up to late game.

This item is done RIGHT. It's clearly a support ish item that's also defensive. It's good for duels without being terrible anywhere else. It can be built on multiple gods, is flexible in its role, and just generally is a good damn item!

Ish-whatever, on the other hand, has a tiny narrow "niche," sucks at its niche, falls off, and gives inflexible stats ON TOP OF having a horribly restrictive passive. It's terrible.

Renowned (112)
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Uhh I'm not a dawngate person.
(quick All4, come translate this for me)

That actually brings me to a separate interesting concept: there are very very few items in Smite that can be used by everyone (mages and physicals) that aren't tank items. Like...there's the fatalis section and that's kind of it.

I know this is offtopic, but your talk of the Discipline item made me realize how sad I really am about lack of items.

-Demolibium

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Item Discussions: O-Bow vs. Ichaival

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