I think at least 1 defense item is core REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU'RE PLAYING AS

Forum » General Discussion » I think at least 1 defense item is core REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU'RE PLAYING AS 34 posts - page 1 of 4

The only "counter-argument" I've heard is "no damage." Because apparently building 1 defense item gives you no damage even when the other 5 items are full damage. I've gotten so much BM from the toxic community for building defense items on ADC's, mages, and assassins, telling me that I'm trash and that my build is **** and of course they pop the "no damage" argument on me. No proven statistical data, just "no damage."

I've found myself doing much better when I build 1 or 2 defense items. When I'm winning, I get farther ahead, and when I'm losing, I survive the burst just long enough to escape. When I build full power builds, I easily die from being focused on before I can even pop my escape or unluckily missing a couple of shots.

People have been telling me that when I'm not doing well, I should "play more defensive" instead of building defense, but when you get 2 shotted, they're going to tower dive you every time and get away with a kill. There is no "playing defensive" with a full power build.

Consider this EXTREME example. The enemy team has FIVE physical attackers. That's right, the entire team is physical, and every one of them is capable of killing you in 1 stun (which you can't avoid because you're going to get stunned eventually while your beads is on cooldown). Are you still going to tell me to not build defense just because I'm playing an ADC?

I'm so tired of this MOBA mentality where everyone thinks they know everything and is constantly attacking their teammates based on some "meta" without really understanding that meta. The meta is developed assuming there's always a perfect guardian to save your ADC ***, but in pubs you might not even have a guardian, let alone a good one. Having no guardian is much more common in joust and siege rather than conquest where everyone has to follow the "MOBA" standard. I don't even play conquest anymore because the toxic MOBA players seem to gather there the most. And before you respond, please, don't include the words "no damage" in your post (oh god everyone is going to say "no damage", aren't they?).

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On ADC's it's because there's no room with the item variance there are. If there's an extrema, sure, you can build a defensive because the amount of extra time you'll live is so extreme, it guarantees longer living. But in common matchups, ADC's cannot afford to waste an item slot. On Mages, they can afford one (hence why Breastplate of Valor is so good). Assassin's can't waste a slot either or they won't oneshot someone - fighter assassins though, can, like Ne Zha or Kali.

Also, if you're getting 2 shot under a tower, having a defensive will not help. It'll make you at MOST 3 shot, but more than likely, still 2 shot. Just pick up Aegis or Combat Blink.

I see your point, but at the current time the items aren't varied enough to cover multiple areas to leave room. Maybe in the future.

So core? No. Situational? Yes.

-Demolibium

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Eminent (158)
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Some times the difference between 2 and 3 shots is exactly what allows you to escape. And how would being ahead mean anything if the only difference is that you 1 shot someone and they 2 shot you? You could kill someone 10 times and be going 10-0, and that 1 shot is all that separates between you and them. I also have a question for people who insist on full power builds. What do you do when Arachne pulls you? And don't tell me I'm supposed to use beads before her ultimate hits me or that I'm not supposed to get hit at all. You can't reasonably react to it fast enough, and there's only so much you can do based on prediction. I suppose you just "man up" and deal with the death? Is that your "solution" to Arachne instead of buying magi's blessing?

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You can absolutely reasonably react to arachne ult, that's why she's garbage in medium+ tier. It takes her around a third of a second to start to fire the ult and it's exceptionally thin. Very dodgeable. Otherwise, you can use ANY positional escape, combat blink, aegis, or simple dodge. But either way, magi's blessing is extremely easy to pop too preliminarily. And then it's down for a huge 45 seconds with her ult being around an 18 second CD.

Either way, that one hit may mean something but 9 times out of 10 it doesn't, and the extra damage could have served you better when the fight mattered.

In the end, it's a matter of preference, but again, it's not core "regardless of who you're playing" to build a defense item, it's your choice.

-Demolibium

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Coming from an extremely experienced Arachne player, building 1 physical defense item isn't going to help. If I pull you in, my spiders and my powerful auto attacks will kill you extremely fast, maybe not as fast if you have physical protection, but that usually doesn't stop me from getting the kill. In fact, if I land my ult, you'll die 9 out of 10 times at least, even if you have a single protection item built. How do you counter her ult? By dodging it. It's so easy to dodge that it's just ridiculous. If you see an Arachne eye-balling you from a distance, then start zig-zagging, and if you get hit, then I wish you goodluck and bid you farewell.
When I use an ADC, I always find it's better to kill people ASAP rather than being able to take an extra hit or two. Playing ADC isn't about surviving the hits, it's about being able to kill the target before you can be killed, which is why lifesteal exists. If you can't aim well enough to hit your AAs then you simply need more practice.

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wrote:

Sorry for having slow reflexes then. Maybe that's why I need the extra defense, because I combat blink just a third of a second slower than you do and end up taking a lot more damage. The thing with combat blink is that you have to take that fraction of a second to turn around (unless you mean to dive into their tower) during which the entire team is attacking you. And normally Arachnes don't target you when they see the bubble because they'd have to pop it twice. Now that Magi's doesn't pop from cripples (say from Poseidon's whirlpool) I find it extremely useful even if it does pop for some other reason.

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wrote:

I meant I build Magi's blessing magi's blessing (which protects you from getting pulled in the first place). And if there was such a thing as perfect aiming, no one would be moving to dodge attacks. The worse offenders are those who move extremely randomly and start going towards you some times. I've played over 500 matches and I can't see my aiming getting any better. Full power builds only worked WAAAY back when I was level 1 to 10. After that, I lost for an extremely long time as neith before I started building protection. I recently tried it out again because of all the people telling me defense is worthless, but I just can't do it. I lost like 8 times in a row.

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500 matches wont do anything for your aim unless you played a lot of those as an ADC. And yeah, Magi's Blessing is a really great counter to , and I build that even as an ADC if the has good aim with her ult.

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If arachne is ulting after their team is attacking arachne is useless. And I said it takes a third for her to even START ulting, much less travel, and once again the width of it isn't even the width of a god. And sure they'd have to pop it twice but the entire rest of the team can very easily pop it, since apparently they're already attacking you before arachne even ults?

Your teamfights are weird man.

-Demolibium

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wrote:

I meant that the entire team is attacking me after I've been pulled, and I need to use combat blink. But to use combat blink I need to turn around so I don't blink the other way, and during that time the entire team is attacking me. I've had times where I literally combat blinked just to die to arachne's poison because it took me so long to turn around and then blink.

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I think at least 1 defense item is core REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU'RE PLAYING AS

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