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I think at least 1 defense item is core REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU'RE PLAYING AS

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Forum » General Discussion » I think at least 1 defense item is core REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU'RE PLAYING AS 34 posts - page 2 of 4
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » June 20, 2014 9:35pm | Report
Raventhor wrote:

You can absolutely reasonably react to arachne ult, that's why she's garbage in medium+ tier.

Speaking as an Arachne player, nope nope nope. The projectile moves so fast, you literally cannot dodge it - if you're aiming at the center of the god's hitbox, moving directly sideways as the ult starts won't be enough. Factor in human reaction time, and nope nope nope.

Trust me, if the enemy Arachne misses, it's not your fault, it's hers.

Arachne's ult is fine - the reason why she's garbage is because she just sucks. Falls off harder than any assassin, base damage drops off extremely fast, dueling potential relies too much on setting up nests beforehand, and when it comes down to it, her damage isn't too great, either, or at least outside of setting up 2+ nests beforehand.

Basically, she's too defensively oriented in an offensive meta game.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » June 20, 2014 9:46pm | Report
I disagree I think you can absolutely dodge it, because of the pre-hit delay I've been talking about extensively.

But I'm not bringing anything new to this discussion so I'm going to politely digress and be on my way.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Pentargonite » June 20, 2014 11:34pm | Report
On gods that need defense Hide of the Urchin or Magi's Blessing.

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Devampi » June 21, 2014 2:02am | Report
Well the only type of god without defense is a assassin when they don't build a lifesteal item. because lifesteal is counted as defensive (partially)
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Zaxolol » June 21, 2014 8:00pm | Report
About predicting arachne's pull and dodging it: It's not always possible. I recently got pulled through a jungle wall as Ao kuang. However, I managed to kill the arachne before she could kill me and the only reason was because I had a Breastplate of Valor. (Though to be fair, it still counts as a damage item because of Ao's passive).

Also, I don't think defense item necessarily means a protection item. When playing as a hunter, lifesteal is my defense. As for ADC's with no escape(Artemis), I like to get Hastened Fatalis which makes me much harder to hit and increases my damage output at the same time.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » June 21, 2014 8:25pm | Report
If I'm playing as Arachne or Loki and someone gets magi's blessing, I would just get FoG to counter it and then ult them when the passive from magi's blessing is down. Other than that, Magi's is a really good counter to Arachne's ult.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Strikerjacob » June 21, 2014 11:46pm | Report
Think of it this way, as an adc would you rather be boxing someone and not dying to them cause of defence but you don't get the kill, or do you want to burst them down before they can touch you, make other people wanna build defence, 1 damage item may seem like it may not help a lot with damage, but it really does.

And about mages, I main mid and I can guarantee that defensive items on mages are usually core, but not the same defensive items you would see on tanks, breastplate of valour is physical defence and much wanted cdr, void stone is defence and a bit of damage and pen. But items like mystical mail would be almost useless on a mage,

And also mages and hunters are both back line in team fights, so not in the centre and if you are doing your team fights right then you won't get bursted down early.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by spare145 » June 22, 2014 7:49pm | Report
Strikerjacob wrote:

Think of it this way, as an adc would you rather be boxing someone and not dying to them cause of defence but you don't get the kill, or do you want to burst them down before they can touch you, make other people wanna build defence, 1 damage item may seem like it may not help a lot with damage, but it really does.

And about mages, I main mid and I can guarantee that defensive items on mages are usually core, but not the same defensive items you would see on tanks, breastplate of valour is physical defence and much wanted cdr, void stone is defence and a bit of damage and pen. But items like mystical mail would be almost useless on a mage,

And also mages and hunters are both back line in team fights, so not in the centre and if you are doing your team fights right then you won't get bursted down early.


Not from my experience. When I go full power, at best I break even on my K-D ratio, going 9-9 or something (and at worst I do terrible). But when I build defense, I can go 14-3 (which was what I got as Apollo the other day). You think power if going to make people want to build defense. Except no one ever builds defense (except me) even if they're going 0-10. That's why I get so much BM for building defense. There is no bursting people down before they can touch you when everyone is building full power builds. If you think the enemy won't even land 1 shot on you, that's incredibly naive.

Just today I was going 1-3 as Neith before I built Hide of the Urchin. This was my comeback item, and I went 3-3 after I got it (before my team surrendered without my consent). Of course, all my teammate said was "DAT NEITH BUILD. NO POWER LOLOLOLOL." If I'm building Hide of the Urchin, of course I'm going to build it early to stack it.

Also happening today, a cupid on my team was doing terrible because he was being focused on. I played him a few times and he was actually rampaging the other game. When he asked why he was focused, the enemy told him he had no defense items because he went the "full power build," like everyone else. How do you expect to survive or contribute anything when you go full power and the entire team focuses on you?
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by spare145 » June 22, 2014 8:17pm | Report
And ANOTHER game where someone tells me I have a **** build for building Hide of the Urchin this time on Hel. The guy was going 2-8 with a full power Janus and he still has to insult me. **** the community.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » June 22, 2014 8:28pm | Report
Eh, the community isn't bad, but you may be facing sub-par people. Are you sub-30, is it ranked, etc? I don't know much. But Hide isn't a horrific idea by any means on hel - you build enough for your burst to be decent and your heals to matter, then build defensively because hel has no innate escapes. You aren't building badly on Hel, that person is just odd.

I also don't know what to make of Janus atm. He's an odd character.

(On a separate note, you *may* need to position better as an adc, it's a lot more weird than other MOBAs. It's harder for people to get to you easily so dodging and weaving is easier, thus the lack of defensive items. My full power builds leave my AMC and Apollo at an average K/D of 3-6. It may just take some getting used to)

But hey, use what works for you! There is no one correct answer. That's why I think it's ridiculous to say 1 defense item on everyone is core, but it's also ridiculous to say it's wrong! Play what works well for you and carry with it - everyone has their own playstyles. :)
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