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Nice guys and douches.

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Forum » General Discussion » Nice guys and douches. 32 posts - page 2 of 4
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Strikerjacob » May 4, 2014 8:16pm | Report
You mentioned a out how you saw something like you did on the forums, and I was on the losing side that game, Rhovanion was the nice guy, and it spreads around, after that happened to me I started doing the same when the enemies had 2 or 3 dcs.
just keep doing it hope to make the smite community better.

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » May 4, 2014 8:46pm | Report
What a nice person :P. Sadly enough, I value my winning over their loss, even though it can be unfair. It's not my direct problem that they have connection issues, neither is it theirs. It's just luck who gets the ****ty internet players. So it can go two ways where everyone who gets those surrender or the opposing team which has all 5 players surrenders.

It doesn't make a difference since the winning % will be the same. The thing that will be different are the feels of the community after the match. I mean if everyone does it, it will help a lot, since it won't make a difference to your wins. Unfortunately, people wanna win quickly instead of waiting. It's just not possible to get everyone to do it. May just be a game to have fun, but then again, you should always have a competitive attitude if you want to succeed, just like any sport! F.E Opposing team injures elbow during a match and I'm beating him badly. I obviously will not crush him and mock him in his face. But I will not change how many points I get because he is injured. Instead of smashing a short lob with all my might, I'll just do enough to win it, placing it at the best opening at a medium/hard pace.

It's just luck based. Don't worry too much about it, take the win!

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Firraria » May 4, 2014 9:35pm | Report
Greenever's post put it very very well, however I'm still going to leave one last post here. If you still can't see where I'm coming from, then agree to disagree. We're obviously completely different, and will never agree on it.

Shavul wrote:

I just cannot get how do you have fun winning something so unfair. And "I care about winning, even if the victory is Shallow" is over-competitive and don't sell me bul****. That's the exact definition of being over-competitive.


Again, it's just a personal preference for fun. We all get fun from different things, and I get fun from winning a game of SMITE despite how easy it is. I never said I cared about winning either (although I do, not to a very large extent though), I just said that winning is more fun than losing despite the losing making somebody else happy (with that logic, by the way, should you not surrender every game?)
Another thing, getting a win from a mercy-surrender is just as cheap as getting a win from a 3v5 (if not more cheap), and is their happyness from winning (or caring about winning) therefore over-competitiveness? And if you don't like over-competitive people, then why satisfy them? It's just all around, as WatchfulShadow said, an awkward situation. Someone will lose, someone will win, and I'd rather be the one winning.

I'm sorry if you wanna play moral police and call me a ********ter or a douche, but there's no right or wrong answer, and thus no moral or immoral answer.

Shavul wrote:

But whatever you feel like. I still see my allies and the enemy as people, and my objective is to have fun fighting a good fight. The harder the battle, the sweeter the victory. And if I do lose, no biggie. I had FUN.


I completely agree. Even if I lose, I still had fun. But if I win, then it's even more fun. My objective is to have fun and win. Over-competitiveness is the desire to win no matter what, and that's something I don't practice.

I still treat everyone, allies and enemies, as if they're people, but I don't see how winning is mistreating them. It's simply flawed logic.

Shavul wrote:

And I'm sorry if I label you as a douche. But, if you were in the game I played, ganking a guy 8 levels behind you, even though I said NOT to attack her, and then reported me for trying to be a nice guy, of course I'd label you as a douche.


That's the biggest flaw in your logic, is that you naturally assume that because I want to win that I would do those things you said. I wouldn't. Again, we're talking about surrendering just to satisfy the enemy, not "ganking a guy 8 levels behind you, even though I said NOT to attack her, and then reported me for trying to be a nice guy,"

I agree that their reasons for reporting you were really really stupid, however; ganking somebody who is 8 levels below you isn't even a douchey thing to do. Seriously, it's called playing the game, and that's how some people play. Maybe not me, but some people.
Why should people conform to the flawed morals of some complete stranger who is try to play moral police?

I can still want to win without treating people like ****.

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by SoapSuds » May 4, 2014 10:35pm | Report
I'm with Firraria and Greenevers on this. Yes, they were in a very ****ty situation, and it sucks, but I fail to see why myself and my team have to take responsibility and purposely lose the match because of it. Sure, I wouldn't "beat the **** out of them", but I would continue playing the game, but probably on a more easy "setting". I wouldn't actively seek out to destroy them. I would just stick to trying to take out towers, play the objective, and attack whoever attacks me. If they lose that many people, then that's pretty much up to them to surrender when the time comes, just like my team and I usually do when we're in that situation. After the match ends, I say "GG WP, sorry about you DCs" or whatever the situation was. I fail to see how that's being a douche or selfish. If your teammates are being *******s about it, sure, but to not surrender for the other team isn't.

I mean, after all, it's just one match and one win or loss. It's not the end of the world or anything to myself or the other team.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Shavul » May 5, 2014 5:37am | Report
Firraria wrote:

Greenever's post put it very very well, however I'm still going to leave one last post here. If you still can't see where I'm coming from, then agree to disagree. We're obviously completely different, and will never agree on it.


I see where you're coming from, don't worry. And I agree to disagree. However I'll continue the quoting thing a bit, in a more calmed attitude.

Firraria wrote:
Again, it's just a personal preference for fun. We all get fun from different things, and I get fun from winning a game of SMITE despite how easy it is. I never said I cared about winning either (although I do, not to a very large extent though), I just said that winning is more fun than losing despite the losing making somebody else happy (with that logic, by the way, should you not surrender every game?)


No you shouldn't. It's not about pleasing the enemy, but about showing them that you don't want to fight something so unfair. Anyway, like you said, it's just personal preference for fun. Thing is, I doubt their "personal preference for fun" is getting stomped by win greedy people. Like I said, on the start I just let them getting farmed to a point that the fight wasn't so unfair anymore (just a little bit). But, since my team was stomping them, the nice guys decided that we should, at least, treat the match as a way to improve the comunity instead of leaving it as a cheap as **** win by beating up someone that can't hold the line at all. It's not judging what's good or wrong or better for them. Is about what's better to all of us. We do not feel bad for beating the **** out of them, and we do a service to the comunity: Improving it.


Firraria wrote:
Another thing, getting a win from a mercy-surrender is just as cheap as getting a win from a 3v5 (if not more cheap), and is their happyness from winning (or caring about winning) therefore over-competitiveness? And if you don't like over-competitive people, then why satisfy them? It's just all around, as WatchfulShadow said, an awkward situation. Someone will lose, someone will win, and I'd rather be the one winning.


Well, you see. It's not as cheap and not condescendent. And I have proof. The guy above said that he was glad that happened. The guys on the other team thanked me for being kind. It was a heart-warming moment. It was showing what people should care about: Improving, having fun by getting challenged. I do not find pleasure on beating a game in god-mode, and neither do they trying their hardest and getting destroyed until they have to surrender to stop the beat up.

Again, if they said "Why did you surrender? We were having fun getting stomped" then yeah, I was being the judge when I shouldn't. But since they thanked me, since strikerjacob thanked Rhovannion, since I could shake hands with them and both be happy about the outcome, I'd say I did the right thing there. Look for the greater good instead of looking for a meaningless victory screen.

But again, it's just personal preference as you said. People will do what they have fun doing.

Firraria wrote:
I'm sorry if you wanna play moral police and call me a ********ter or a douche, but there's no right or wrong answer, and thus no moral or immoral answer.


Nothing have a moral answer. Right or wrong is still subjective. But, there is a "time-related grasp of right and wrong" which is based on the society you're at. Nowadays, the right thing to do is to care about other people. Be generous, make them feel happy. Is, as you can see, what I did. Maybe I was a moral-cop, but I was a good one. I didn't judge what was right there; the enemy team did by being grateful.


Firraria wrote:
I still treat everyone, allies and enemies, as if they're people, but I don't see how winning is mistreating them. It's simply flawed logic.


It's not mistreating. It's improving this thing. You all always bash at people raging, having 10 minutes surrenders, insulting the jungler for not ganking, feeding when losing, leaving the game, reporting for the most bul**** reason. My action there was one taken to try to change that a bit. If everyone tried to be positive, to just try to fight fair fights, accepting people's flaws and trying to help instead of just saying "ZOMG UNINSTALL" and people could take constructive criticism instead of getting ****ing pissed off, SMITE would be a better, and more fun, place to be at instead of the **** we have now. I'm, of course, not saying that surrendering when a match is unfair will change all of that. I saw that as a little step towards that, and so did the people we surrendered to. I try to do everything I listed above. Trying to give advice, accepting my own flaws and asking for help if I need to, etc.


Firraria wrote:
That's the biggest flaw in your logic, is that you naturally assume that because I want to win that I would do those things you said. I wouldn't.


I know. My point there was just an "in case of" point, not "You would do that because you are a selfish mofo that just wants to win".

Firraria wrote:
I agree that their reasons for reporting you were really really stupid, however; ganking somebody who is 8 levels below you isn't even a douchey thing to do. Seriously, it's called playing the game, and that's how some people play. Maybe not me, but some people.
Why should people conform to the flawed morals of some complete stranger who is try to play moral police?

I can still want to win without treating people like ****.

Because they did, indeed, conform with that. They did like it. They will remember that. It's not like they did see it as a mercyful victory, as neither did us see it as a lost. They saw a good actian, and we saw a good action too. The victory or defeat screen did not matter to any of us. We didn't gave them a win; we showed that we have fun, as we should, having a fair fight. And we agreed to fight again on better conditions. And the main point again is They did, indeed, enjoy the judgement of the "moral police" as you say. They weren't pissed, humiliated, or anything. That wasn't a win or a loss. It was a good action.

SoapSuds wrote:

I'm with Firraria and Greenevers on this. Yes, they were in a very ****ty situation, and it sucks, but I fail to see why myself and my team have to take responsibility and purposely lose the match because of it. Sure, I wouldn't "beat the **** out of them", but I would continue playing the game, but probably on a more easy "setting". I wouldn't actively seek out to destroy them. I would just stick to trying to take out towers, play the objective, and attack whoever attacks me. If they lose that many people, then that's pretty much up to them to surrender when the time comes, just like my team and I usually do when we're in that situation. After the match ends, I say "GG WP, sorry about you DCs" or whatever the situation was. I fail to see how that's being a douche or selfish. If your teammates are being *******s about it, sure, but to not surrender for the other team isn't.


And I agree with this. That's the normal way of being. If that was the point, I would have called this "Normal guys and douches", being the normal guy the one that took your action and the douche the ****ing ******* that reported us. Your action is not douchy or selfish; my action was nicer. That's the point.

SoapSuds wrote:
I mean, after all, it's just one match and one win or loss. It's not the end of the world or anything to myself or the other team.

That's the cool thing about this. It wasn't just one match and one win or loss. There was no match and no win or loss. It was something to be remembered. Just a good action, although I repeated myself already.


Sorry if I repeated myself a lot and I sounded like some kind of messiah wannabe. Not my intention. Just saying that taking good actions like that is the nice thing to do, and an action towards the improvement of the community. It's ok to just go easy on them to get the win, although I find it boring as all hell anyway.

You see, this is like smurfing to me. If you do, for some reason, smurf, the OK thing is to smurf but go easy on them until you get your win. The douchy thing is to stomp on their faces.

The nice thing is to not smurf at all.

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HolyPudding » May 10, 2014 1:08pm | Report
Time for me to lose my credibility.

To be honest, I would f6 if three others from my team wanted to. But to be honest, I would mostly just go for the win whilst avoiding killing them. Y'know, the way I see it is that yes, it is douchey to claim a win for yourself illegitimately, but then again how does a team losing a player make it suddenly given the right to a free win? The thing is, wins are given to the deserving team, and in my opinion a team that has lost a player or two is only deserving if they played it well. And that's the thing. Being all nice, sunshine and roses may be a good thing in the short term, but in the long term you aren't helping others to improve by dishing them out free wins.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by WatchfulShadow » May 11, 2014 6:49pm | Report
@Shavul - I of course mean this in no way hostile or insulting, but you act as though that match/situation could completely change a player's attitude toward the game. From your words I'm guessing Jacob and Rhovanion were in that game? They're already cool guys, I've noticed from being on this forum. If that match was filled with the immature idiots that plague this game, I'm sure that when they saw you surrender, they wouldn't think, "Holy tits, all this time I've been a jackass to people and insulting them for no reason, I'm going to change my ways !" They'd just ask to report the leaver in the lobby and probably insult him. Hell, I've been told to be reported for trying to HELP my team.

My point is that surrendering every time an enemy has a DC isn't going to change the community. If they leave at two minutes and never return, then it's going to be incredibly tough or almost impossible to win and they themselves will probably agree to surrender at 10. If it's around 20 minutes then the team with 4 could still win; some picks, into a FG and smart play. If they were saying, "Guys, we have a DC, but we can still win. Just play smart." Then your team surrender and deprive them of that heroic victory, that's kinda douchey. The people that you're trying to change are too ignorant to even help, have you ever tried talking to them? Just leave them to it and look for the good guys of the community, plenty of them here on this forum.

Your morality shouldn't be a factor into competitive play, apart from certain situations. You play to win. Yes, it's just casuals, blah blah blah, but when you enter that game you're playing to win, not to be seen as the good guy.

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Vaeldyn » May 12, 2014 2:22am | Report
Depends. If it's below the 20 (or 25) min mark, I totally would surrender, cause it's not even fun..

But if the enemy is really good and can still compete 4v5, I usually don't surrender. It's a nice challenge and I can grow on that. Also there is a point for me, where killing the titan is 5 min ahead and I just go for it straight, without making them feel bad.

TL;DR: Yes I would surrender with you in that situation

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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by BestMinionEver » May 13, 2014 4:04am | Report
Surrendering because the enemy team have a DC or two is just stupid IMO.

Why in the world should that be your problem? Lets face it you play the game to win, if not you should really think about why you are wasting your time on a game you do not even want to win..

If the enemy team decides to not surrender a 4v5/3v5 game that is their decision and it might be because they are having fun with it. So why should you surrender and ending a game that they want to play?

If you play a 5v4 and deliberately drag the game out for a unnecessary amount of time you do not deserve the win. But there is a big difference from that and playing it as a normal game where you play to win and not just to get kills.

I would not surrender with you and I just think it would make the community a joke if this was a thing :P
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Aphnex » May 13, 2014 4:20am | Report

Surrendering because the enemy team have a DC or two is just stupid IMO.

Why in the world should that be your problem? Lets face it you play the game to win, if not you should really think about why you are wasting your time on a game you do not even want to win..

If the enemy team decides to not surrender a 4v5/3v5 game that is their decision and it might be because they are having fun with it. So why should you surrender and ending a game that they want to play?

If you play a 5v4 and deliberately drag the game out for a unnecessary amount of time you do not deserve the win. But there is a big difference from that and playing it as a normal game where you play to win and not just to get kills.

I would not surrender with you and I just think it would make the community a joke if this was a thing :P

Shavul wrote:

about showing them that you don't want to fight something so unfair

It's about showing restraint, kindness, and sincerity. It's about making a stand and being unique from the community mindset such as this. Regardless if you play to win, regardless the reason the enemy dc'd, you'd have to be three members of TSO if you actually stand a chance on a 3v5. I did it because we were pretty much dumpstering on the enemy team, you're calling that a joke? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how the community would be made a joke of, since it already is a joke.

A terrible, rage educing, player exalting, joke.

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