The Soul Eater problem

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So I have been doing a lot of thought on soul eater. It has possibly the most awkward mismatch of stats and passive that I have ever seen with the none of the the stats really working together or being utilized properly by anyone really. The most useful isolated stat on it is the crowd control reduction, it can be utilized by everyone as crowd control reduction is very prevelant in smite. The mana is utilized by almost no one who would want to use it as the items other stats are best used by basic attackers. The lifesteal is pretty strong at 20% however it has no offensive stats to help you utilize the percent your healing and as such devourer's gloves is better as a lifesteal item for anyone who is building offensively. This leads into the passive which is an on hit percent HP heal. Two percent might not seem like a lot but on a tank with 3000 hp that is a 60 health heal on hit.
The only God in the game who can really make good use of it however is Erlang Shen as just like with Deaths till the dog procs the heal at full effect along with having a swing chain to get more procs than anyone else. Some math with the swing chain and attack speed if you use the mink form and hit 2.0 attack speed you are healing for about 12 percent of your health per second provided you aren't being kited. Which is actually phenomenal. However the fact that the rest of the stats aren't being utilized almost at all what do you guys think could be done to make the item viable. I personally think they should remove the man and the lifesteal and instead give it 30 of each type of protection.

I have an awesome guide out on Cabrakan, check it out

http://www.smitefire.com/smite/guide/brutality-in-the-solo-lane-and-jungle-violence-in-progress-5994

Remarkable (6)
Posts: 278

Remove the Mana and make it add Physical Power and I think it could be a solid item.

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Prominent (35)
Posts: 735

DV's suggestion is definitely an improvement, and Dio's whole comment is spot on as to the current situation of .

Do you mind me talking? Well, yes, but you also expect it. Sorry.

What is this item's defining stat? I think everyone is in agreement that it's about the lifesteal, right?

So, best way to compare is to look at all lifesteal items, see what they provide, and see if there's a hole that can fill...if not, then maybe the best option would be to just eliminate the item altogether.

Because this is a physical lifesteal item, let's look at the magical spread first, to see what these cover...might form a base to give us ideas later.

Magical Lifesteal (gained by both abilities and basic attacks)

Bancroft's Talon: Very high power. Useful as a lifesteal item for basically all mages, specifically due to the power.
Book of the Dead: High power, health and a health shield. Useful as a more defensively-minded option.
Polynomicon: Mana and burst damage after ability use. Functional for added burst when following up with a basic after an ability...more helpful if that ability has some form of CC (to help confirm the basic hit). Useful specifically for the added burst, for high power/pen builds.
Pythagorem's Piece: CDR, mana, aura of added power and lifesteal. Functional for later stages of a game for teamfight function...sort of a jack-of-all-trades item. Useful for anyone for utility.
What stats are missing? Pen, CC, CCR, attack speed, movespeed, protections/mitigations, anti-heal.

Then we have one neutral item...

Witchblade: health, attack speed, movespeed, aura of attack speed reduction. Due to the attack speed, it's really meant for any god that uses a lot of basic attacks, and it also COUNTERS basic attacks. Useful very specifically for basic attackers (e.g. Freya, Hunters, some Assassins and Warriors).

Physical Lifesteal (gained ONLY by basic attacks, except unique items)

Asi: attack speed, flat pen, cheap. Can be considered a bridge item, but strong enough to remain in a final build. Useful specifically for basic attackers.
Bloodforge: power, situational health shield (+ move speed). Basically the physical variant of Book of the Dead, where the health shield/MS only applies upon getting a kill. Useful when you already have enough attack speed, and are looking more for the power.
Devourer's Gauntlet: stacking, high power. Functional specifically for the high end power and sustain. Useful for basic attackers who will get attack speed elsewhere.
Gladiator's Shield: low power, moderate physical protection, CDR, god hits on damaging abilities provide health/mana heal. Bridge item. Yes, this isn't exactly a lifesteal item, but wanted to include it just to broaden the consideration of applicable sustain. Useful specifically to counter physical enemy laner.
Soul Eater: mana, CC reduction. As Dio basically says (paraphrased)...WTF? The only instance where this one can work reasonably well is with Erlang Shen, due to the unique way his doggy's damage counts as a 2nd basic attack (which also helps with other items like Death's Toll).
What stats are missing? CC, (mostly) CDR, move speed, (mostly) protections/mitigations, anti-heal.

Soul Eater Considerations and Adjustment Options

Now, it's probably best to keep on the periphery of consideration, since it fits a very specific role that is really meant for Solo-laners in the early game, more than anything. That said, perhaps it offers a glimpse into what might be able to offer.

Of the stats SE currently has, and with the understanding that physical lifesteal can only be obtained by basic attacks:

We can agree that the mana is sort of out of place. Sure, it can help because even basic attackers need mana, but it's not all that key, unless this item becomes one that people want to be purchase early.
The CCR is nice. Rather than full-on offense, this provides a measure of defense. Something like this can stay, depending on what else might be changed.
The lifesteal, between the stock 20% and the passive, is fairly high. Obviously, the higher your health, the more health is restored by the passive...so with that flexibility, it really is sort of designed for more of the tanky/bruiser basic attackers...basically, a niche item for Osiris and Erlang Shen, with lesser, situational function for Vamana, Ravana, Amaterasu, and Bellona (note I'm not saying it SHOULD be built for them in its current iteration).

So...can we agree that between , , and , we have plenty of pure offense lifesteal options? If so, this opens the door to truly make a tankier god's lifesteal option. Maybe to the point it might even be functional for specific Assassin builds...

How do these basic attacking bruisers build? Besides , they'll usually get 1 or 2 protection items, high pen from either or , sometimes , and choices from a variety of utility options, including , , , , and .

What stats could then find useful for a bruiser application, and where would it sub in for another item? Move speed isn't that necessary, as we have plenty of options there. CDR isn't really needed because it's for a basic attacker, right? We have too many anti-heal options. So...mitigations and/or protections, maybe health, maybe some power, maybe some attack speed. And a consideration to tweak or completely change the passive...seriously, not sure about their thinking on the passive...don't see it as necessary.

Some proposals then:

20% lifesteal, 15% attack speed, 200 health, passive (basic attacks add stacking protections up to 20?)...2,200 gold?
30 power, 20% lifesteal, 200 health, passive (basic attacks add stacking attack/movespeed...similar to Wind Demon's passive...but nothing too blown out...maybe max 15% attack speed and 20% movespeed based on 3 or 5 attacks, for 2 seconds)...2,600 gold?
20% lifesteal, 15% attack speed, 150 health, 20% CCR, passive (basics have 15 flat pen, not abilities).

I dunno...ideas...mix and match, change price, whatever. Any of these seem better than current.

Thoughts?

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Mythical (400)
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I agree with you in the fact that I actually like the Crowd Control Reduction that the item offers. That aspect can have good use on Hunters, Assassins, and Warriors alike.

My favorite of your ideas is the stacking protection passive. I think this is definitely a defense oriented item, but also wants to give you a bit of offensive versatility with the attack speed increase.

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Prominent (35)
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I have to agree on it being an item more favored for bruisers. Sadly it now is mostly aimed at ability using warriors which won't make use of the passive.

if you want to change not a lot of it either the passive needs to be changed or the mana. Cause basic attackers have a better use for it then. Or change the passive to having x% on abilities (or do we have an item like this already) maybe even dependent on DoTs or AoE

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Renowned (105)
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I took a long hiatus from smite and played a lot of other moba's and honestly I think that smites biggest problems is they don't have enough true juggernaut items. My point being that almost any item that a tank or bruiser could build there is little to no reason not to build them on assasin which leads to a tanky assasin meta (literally the meta every Moba I have played tries to avoid). There needs to be more items that scale off things other than just power. Take Titanic Hydra in league, it offers on-hit cleave based off a percent of your (the god attacking) max health. At the moment the only thing like that is soul eater and I absolutely love it. If anything I think that should stay as you wouldn't really want lifesteal anyway on most warriors as with all the anti-heal the only people getting significant use out of lifesteal anyway are people who use crier which requires way too much itemization to be tanky at the same time (for good reason).

I have an awesome guide out on Cabrakan, check it out

http://www.smitefire.com/smite/guide/brutality-in-the-solo-lane-and-jungle-violence-in-progress-5994

Remarkable (6)
Posts: 278

I would say that the current meta isn't exactly a tanky assassin meta. In fact, Warriors have more recently been considered very strong overall. Assassins definitely build at least 1 or 2 protection items these days (depending on god, at least...some still go full damage)...but they just can't substitute for the inherent tankiness that Warriors have.

I think the biggest difference between Warriors and Assassins is that Warriors have a lot of base damage in their kits...Assassins usually have more burst, and their abilities typically scale better with power, thus requiring them to build more power/pen to output more damage.

I do think it would be interesting for SE to have something tied more specifically into your max health, promoting you to be more tanky and deal more damage for it.

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Mythical (400)
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The Soul Eater problem

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