Copying vs Following, and other MOBA vs Smite Comparisons :: Page 4

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wrote:

The time is irrelevant. I don't care how much time they put into the lore/story, as long as the lore/story is good, and I find the ancient lore far more fascinating than the stories.

Yeah but here is the problem, they don't put any time at all in lore because they did not create it.

Hirez is simply using lore that is known to almost everyone, the lore that smite uses is good because it was made by the greek, the roman, the norse, the chineze, the mayans, the egyptions and the hindu's... Not hirez.

Hirez isn't the one who should be give credit for that lore, if you like what those civilizations made over what is made today then thats fine but hirez didn't create anything.

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wrote:

Perhaps they do focus a little too much on the lore, and too little on the actual god. But I would in no way support them taking time OUT of lore and putting that time toward gameplay, and here's why: (THIS IS VERY ****ING IMPORTANT BY THE WAY BUT I'M TOO LAZY TO BOLD IT SO PAY ATTENTION)

Part of the reason why I like Smite in comparison to other mobas is the fact that Smite uses actual mythological figures. And while some players, especially competitive ones, may say "Ah, nobody cares about the lore. Just get me into the action.", I know personally I enjoy the lore, and I'd go so far as to say, I usually pick characters to play often with their lore in mind. For example, I find 's story fascinating.

Yeah, that's a big draw. Jerma, Booman61. and I'm pretty sure that Squiidish picked up the game because of the mythological part.

wrote:

As for Sub's whole deal with the "below the standard" thing... meh, I can't really argue there, besides the fact that perhaps Hi-Rez wants to give you only the bare minimum and let you figure out the rest for yourself. However, I will say one thing, however, which is also important:

I feel Hi-Rez sometimes DOESN'T WANT to follow in LoL's footsteps intentionally because it wants to be different. Hi-Rez really wants to create a moba that stands out from the rest.

Now, before I get everyone jumping in saying "BUT HI-REZ COPIES ABILITIES AND STUFF FROM LEAGUE ALL THE TIME", let me just say this.

Do you know how many mobas are on the market? Let's just stick with the main 3 for now: LoL, DOTA, and Smite.

LoL has 121 champs, with 4 abilities and 1 passive each.

DOTA has 110 heroes (I think) with 4 abilities each.

Smite has 60 gods with 4 abilities and 1 passive each.

That means, total, LoL has 605 abilities, DOTA has 440 abilities each, and Smite has 300 abilities each, for a total of 1345 abilities.

I don't care what the company is, you're gonna accidentally (or maybe intentionally) copy off of one of the ONE ****ING THOUSAND abilities in one of the other two mobas, and I think people need to realize this. When you put it into perspective, it can be tough thinking of COMPLETELY ORIGINAL abilities, oh and by the way, even if you think it's completely original, there's a small chance you copied off of one of the other mobas by accident.

So I think the whole "Smite copying League" argument seriously needs to be dropped.

I get that some abilities might, by pure accident, be copied, or at least, be very similar, and it's hard to make original stuff, but two points:

1: Smite has copied League way, way, way too often than to be accidental. There are more similarities between Smite and League than any other pair of MOBAs. From items to map design to god abilities. You know the examples.

2: You don't have to copy, exactly. Cerulean's Q (Dawngate) is extremely similar to Darius' Q (League of Legends), but the former applies a huge slow and is used for utility most of the time, while the latter is pure damage, and more damage from his passive.

Remember, I'm not asking things to be completely, 100% original. I'm just asking for abilities to not be as similar as a Nu Wa ultimate to a Karthus ult, or a Neith ultimate to a Cait ultimate. Yeah, it's almost impossible to make something completely original...actually, it isn't. I mean, League has kept on making original champs back-to-back. Azir, Kallista, Gnar.

Ugh, I digress. Point is, HiRez CAN be more original. I'm not asking them to be completely original, just MORE original. They've proven themselves capable of some originality, and they are hopefully willing to deviate. They just...haven't.

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wrote:

The time is irrelevant. I don't care how much time they put into the lore/story, as long as the lore/story is good, and I find the ancient lore far more fascinating than the stories.

Personal taste, I suppose. I personally don't really like mythology only because I heard of it a few hundred thousand times. But I really like things that put a twist on it, like PJatO, or Thalia's Musings.

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Where do you come up with these poll answers xD

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I don't think Smite is really copying League, but I think League and Dota set the standards for a moba. For another example, you can say Mario set the standards for a platformer. Nowadays, most platformers are about traveling through a level in which you use power-ups to help you pass it. Then at the end of each world, you get a boss and eventually it becomes the final boss. That's essentially the core of a platformer, because it's how the successful Mario franchise does it. Does it mean that things like Rayman are copying Mario? While I don't think so since it's just following what works that's up to debate. Basically, the same thing with LoL, Dota, and other Mobas, but again, that's up to debate.

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wrote:

Where do you come up with these poll answers xD

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wrote:

they probebly should either way because the ult doesn't fit in smite, its less effective because you can't do a quick HP check on the enemy you're trying to finish off, Hirez in beta marketed smite to be all skill shots and this ult is a direct slap in the face to those who originally helped smite grow big.

i would say its a copy because the minor changes like cc immunity on it and lower CD aren't different enough to the point where i would say it's simply following something that is proven as good.

i honestly dont think there is a way to NOT make this ult a copy in smite but a "following", the ult just doesn't fit in smite, it takes new wa out of the action by sending her to space but unlike thors ult doesn't allow you to send your self back into the action, its more so i do this so i deal some more damage and am safe for a few seconds. it doesn't make for ingaging gameplay which hirez has proven they want.

I agree with this for the most part.

As said before, I don't mind a game taking ideas from another game and inputting it into their own game. That's how games are. If there are very successful games in a certain genre, you take some ideas from them and incorporate them into your game. Many great games are products of inspiration from other games. Nothing wrong with that at all.

However, those ideas should fit into your game before throwing them in. I don't think Nu Wa's new ult fits in very well with Smite at all. I've expressed my dislike for her new ult many, many times, so I don't want to get into too huge of a rant on it, but an ult that damages every enemy on the map with just the push of a button and nothing else is just way too out of place for a game that touts the gimmick of constant skill shotting. Granted, there are other ults that don't require any aim and affects every enemy on the map, such as Xbalanque, but it doesn't damage and is insanely easy to avoid the stun. Neith's ult also doesn't require a skill shot, but does require the enemy to be within sight and does require you to at least aim it close enough for the auto aim to take effect. Nu Wa's ult simply doesn't belong in this game and was a lazy idea grab to slap on her.

Also, to chime in on the lore thing, no, it is not harder for HiRez to come up with lore due to it already existing. It's not hard to take a few minutes to read up some actual lore for a mythological figure and coming up with your own words to slap onto your character in the game based on the figure. Anyone of us could do it.

However, that being said, I do think it's not as easy as some of you think it is to come up with a role and skill set based on the lore. Granted, some abilities don't really have too much correlation to the figure, but I feel it's easier to be able to come up with a skill set on a character you created yourself. Creating your own character gives you the freedom to do whatever the hell you want. With these mythological gods/goddesses, while some may not be entirely accurate to their lore, for the most part, they have to try and come up with a skill set that represents these characters, and a lot of the time, I think they do a decent job. An example, let's look at Apollo, who HiRez decided to focus around his music:

His 1, does damage through his harp. His 2, mesmerizes with a serenade. His 3, a dash, is him sliding on his knees across the ground, which has been done many times by musicians on stage/in music videos. His ult, which pays more homage to his chariot, does play music when he goes down. And while his passive doesn't really have anything to do with his music, the icon and the meter is in the form of a sun, which he is also the god of. Say what you want on his state of balance, but I think they did a great job in terms of his skills and how they represent his already existing lore.

Again, I think it's harder to create your own character/lore than it is to find existing characters/lores and representing them in your game. However, it can be debated whether or not it's harder to come up with a skill set/role that represents a pre-existing character/their lore than it is for a character/lore you completely created yourself.

Oh, and also:

Cain best Binding of Isaac character, yo.

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But Cain got nerfed! Buffed Samson OP!

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Pfft, who cares about buffs/nerfs?

Cain's got that eye patch. That's all he needs to wreck house.

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No one likes Eve :(

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