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Let's Make Patch Notes - Guardians

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Forum » General Discussion » Let's Make Patch Notes - Guardians 98 posts - page 8 of 10

Poll Question:


What Topic Shall we Pick?
Geb's Shield
Ares' Uselessness
Hades' Uselessness
VOTE
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by TormentedTurnip » February 4, 2014 10:05am | Report
My revision to my reworked Ares
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by arka222 » February 4, 2014 10:21am | Report
Lets be clear on two things:

1. Does Ares need a nerf or a buff? To me he needs a little balance.

2. He is a god who would look terrible in wrong hands and awesome/too strong in capable hands.

Problem with ares is tat his ulti dominates a game too much and his basic attacks cannot kill a minion wave in 60sec even at level 20. why give him a dummy sword then?

-Increase potency of basic attacks
-Decrease his ulti radius.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by TormentedTurnip » February 4, 2014 10:23am | Report
Personally, I think he needs a full rework, because his kit does not reflect his description of a guardian. Simply buffing or reducing his numbers is not enough to properly balance him.

And regarding your statement that his ultimate dominates games, that's entirely incorrect. It's because it's so strong yet easily defended against that it becomes pretty much useless, because everyone makes sure to counter it. The only stage of the game where Ares's ultimate is actually any good is against new players who autobuy meditation and sprint.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by arka222 » February 4, 2014 10:31am | Report
I look at competitive games with a keen eye..They very much highlight the limits of a god, somebody would be terrible with a god and some other would be too awesome with the same god and similar build. So, how to decide wats the right thing to do? Kit rework is the last resort, when something is broken beyond a limit. Yes Ares is not too much of a guardian/support but an initiator and game changer/impact player. But in no way he's broken.

EDIT: irrespective of people using beads against him or not, a good ares has more impact on a game than even a carry like Xbalanque.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » February 4, 2014 11:28am | Report
Speaking as a conquest player, yes, Ares is broken.

What can he do? An easily countered engaging tool. High single-target damage. Literally, that is it. He can't peel, he can't disengage, he can't sustain, he can't pick off enemies. Between Purification Beads's 90 second cooldown and the mass of CC-immune ultimates in the game, a competent team will pretty much never be stunnned by No Escape. Which leaves his singe-target damage, which is fine, but that's literally the only good thing about him.

I don't think a walking ult bot gives more impact than an ADC.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Chiulin » February 5, 2014 1:31am | Report
TormentedTurnip wrote:

My revision to my reworked Ares




I like all except his ult here. If he were to pull 3 gods. Well, they would just attack him and destroy him in no time. He should be granted a decent amount of damage mitigation during the ult. Or, what I think would be cool is damage reflection. Literally make the other team decide how they want to handle the situation. Attack the Ares to try to escape as fast as possible, while still taking damage from the reflection(which would pretty much give him mitigation), or try to dodge enemies and survive for the duration before running. Also make his ult apply extra damage if they use a CC immunity after it. Maybe a scaling based on maximum health like Geb's ult. This gives the enemy team a chance and a decision on the best escape. Yet it also gives Ares a useful supportive ultimate.

What do you think?
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HiFromBuddha » February 5, 2014 1:43am | Report
Chiulin wrote:

I like all except his ult here. If he were to pull 3 gods. Well, they would just attack him and destroy him in no time. He should be granted a decent amount of damage mitigation during the ult. Or, what I think would be cool is damage reflection. Literally make the other team decide how they want to handle the situation. Attack the Ares to try to escape as fast as possible, while still taking damage from the reflection(which would pretty much give him mitigation), or try to dodge enemies and survive for the duration before running. Also make his ult apply extra damage if they use a CC immunity after it. Maybe a scaling based on maximum health like Geb's ult. This gives the enemy team a chance and a decision on the best escape. Yet it also gives Ares a useful supportive ultimate.

What do you think?


I'm just going to say it bluntly, none of your your ideas are necessary and therefore none of them are good.

He is a tank, if he ults 3 people while he is alone, quite frankly, he deserves to die. There should always be team support there by the time the enemy has time to burst him down, a tank.

Your second suggestion is simply just a complete lack of counterplay. Kill Ares, and slowly die yourself, or don't kill Ares, and he slowly drags you to your death. How does that provide 'a chance for the enemy to make a decision on the best escape'? It's just two corridors that both lead to the same abbatoir.

Make it scale of the enemy's max health, maybe. I mean, it sure as hell isn't necessary and the ability is fine as it is, but it's probably the most valid thing suggested of the three.

I mean, I'm not saying the ultimate is flawless, but none of your suggestions help fix the arguable problems with it.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by arka222 » February 5, 2014 1:55am | Report
arka222 wrote:

I look at competitive games with a keen eye..They very much highlight the limits of a god, somebody would be terrible with a god and some other would be too awesome with the same god and similar build. So, how to decide wats the right thing to do? Kit rework is the last resort, when something is broken beyond a limit. Yes Ares is not too much of a guardian/support but an initiator and game changer/impact player. But in no way he's broken.

EDIT: irrespective of people using beads against him or not, a good ares has more impact on a game than even a carry like Xbalanque.

EDIT: In a game, all 9 players look at Ares as to how he's gonna play. Tat's an aura no other god has.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Chiulin » February 5, 2014 2:39am | Report
HiFromBuddha wrote:



I'm just going to say it bluntly, none of your your ideas are necessary and therefore none of them are good.

He is a tank, if he ults 3 people while he is alone, quite frankly, he deserves to die. There should always be team support there by the time the enemy has time to burst him down, a tank.

Your second suggestion is simply just a complete lack of counterplay. Kill Ares, and slowly die yourself, or don't kill Ares, and he slowly drags you to your death. How does that provide 'a chance for the enemy to make a decision on the best escape'? It's just two corridors that both lead to the same abbatoir.

Make it scale of the enemy's max health, maybe. I mean, it sure as hell isn't necessary and the ability is fine as it is, but it's probably the most valid thing suggested of the three.

I mean, I'm not saying the ultimate is flawless, but none of your suggestions help fix the arguable problems with it.


The second suggestion wasn't to add a lot of reflection. I was talking maybe 10 percent. That way if one enemy decided. Oh hey I'll just attack while his team tried other methods. He would surely pay for it at least a little. However, if they were coordinated and all attacked. Different story, the effect could be almost minimal. I do agree that it could just be lacking in counter play, especially with my third suggestion.

The third suggestion is there for a reason. Even with TT's new ultimate idea. Well, people would just simply use Purification Beads, or Aegis Pendant to escape it and you would run into all the same problems. Therefore I think some sort of penalty(not super massive oh god you're ****ed if you counter this penalty), but just some sort of hurt. Maybe a scale of 10%/15%/20%/25%/30% maximum health dealt as magical damage. That really could give them an option. Do we stay in it and try to kill Ares, or his teammates, or do we take the damage and run?
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HiFromBuddha » February 5, 2014 2:54am | Report
Chiulin wrote:

The second suggestion wasn't to add a lot of reflection. I was talking maybe 10 percent. That way if one enemy decided. Oh hey I'll just attack while his team tried other methods. He would surely pay for it at least a little. However, if they were coordinated and all attacked. Different story, the effect could be almost minimal. I do agree that it could just be lacking in counter play, especially with my third suggestion.


If it's just 10%, then it is pointless. That 10% can be shifted into power elsewhere. It's just completely unnecessary. You're completely ignoring the problems.

Chiulin wrote:

The third suggestion is there for a reason. Even with TT's new ultimate idea. Well, people would just simply use Purification Beads, or Aegis Pendant to escape it and you would run into all the same problems. Therefore I think some sort of penalty(not super massive oh god you're ****ed if you counter this penalty), but just some sort of hurt. Maybe a scale of 10%/15%/20%/25%/30% maximum health dealt as magical damage. That really could give them an option. Do we stay in it and try to kill Ares, or his teammates, or do we take the damage and run?


I'm really sorry, but I'm finding it really hard to word this nicely. It's just a mix of can't be bothered explaining why your suggestion is bad and pointless, and a mix of how irritated I am at how 'blind' you are.

The problem with Ares' ultimate right now is not the fact that it is hard countered by Purification Beads, but more so if you don't have Purification Beads, you are just ****ed. While it may not be TT's original intention, I see this change as still keeping Ares' effectiveness but making it so Purification Beads is not detrimental.

I'd also like to say that, I don't know if it's just you not reading carefully or whatever, but the minimum duration of the ultimate is 4 seconds. Purification Beads lasts 3 seconds at max rank. That means that even if you do use Purification Beads, you will still be pulled once, it just won't be as bad if yo don't have beads.

Now please don't try to argue this, because I swear that I'm going to snap if this argument goes any longer. I'm already irritated that I'm spending my time here talking about something pointless when I could be doing something else that I could actually be having fun with or being productive.
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