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What do you think about Guan Yu ?

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Forum » General Discussion » What do you think about Guan Yu ? 14 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by UndeadTryHard » June 11, 2014 11:19am | Report
Hi Community!
Lately I started playing Guan Yu. I tried him on solo lane and as supporter on duo lane.
I have the impression that Guan Yu isnt that strong like other Solo laner. As Support Guan Yu I had better games. so now... What dp you think guys is Guan Yu playable on Solo lane or as Support or maybe both? I would like to discuss that with you :)
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Devampi » June 11, 2014 11:24am | Report
I like him more on suport because of the heal and since the nerf he took a hard hit
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by SherriffTurtle » June 24, 2014 10:56pm | Report
Basically, he's okay in the solo lane, but he just doesn't hold up to other solo laners like Herc and He bo. He's just better as support because of his heal and wave clear ability (trust me, wave clear is important for some carries thay dont have it cough*Rama*cough). Also, jungle Guan is fun but obviously not viable against other junglers, but doing it on my smurf is pretty funny.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Raventhor » June 24, 2014 11:02pm | Report
Pretty sub-par nowadays, ESPECIALLY after the gigantic warrior overhall. His waveclear is VERY average and requires he use both abilities to do it, leaving him very vulnerable. His ultimate is decent but annoying to control, and thus clunky, not counting how long it takes to build up the damage. His heal is miniscule at best, even with a full passive stack. There's nothing he really brings that can't be done better by someone else, but he's very average at everything. If you want someone without glaring weaknesses at the cost of having no incredible strengths, pick him - he's at least consistent. But I'd recommend several other people overtop of him.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » June 24, 2014 11:06pm | Report
Guan Yu does feel pretty weak, I'm feeling he's going to get a buff sooner or later. Small one at that. Used to love him though, great sustain and Taolu Assault just was amazing
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Jordenito » June 25, 2014 12:14am | Report
Guan Yu is probably the god with the most bad match ups in the solo lane. Because he is so ridiculously reliant on Taolu Assault, every god who has a hard CC which isn't a knock up just destroys him in lane. And every freaking god in SMITE has some sort of hard CC. Hades, Chronos, Eset, Agni, Thor, Thanatos, Apollo, Ullr, Anubis, Aphrodite, Freya, Nu Wa, Hercules, and the list goes on and on...

The problem with him is that he is so avoidable. You can interrupt his Taolu Assault, you can just jump out of it, you can sprint away from it, you can jump from his ult, use sprint, Aegis Amulet, beads or blink/ Combat Blink to avoid it. Cavalry Charge and Taolu Assault may do ridiculous damage, but they are the most coutnerable and avoidable abilities in the game.

Additionally, his nerfs took away the protection buff from his 3. I can't really seeem to understand the logic in it, because all Guan does is in melee range, and because he doesn't have burst damage for ****, he can't endure it. He doesn't have a single ranged ability. Now, you take away the protections from a god who has a ****ty early game damage, with the most avoidable abilities and ridiculous mana hungriness, and what do you get? Nothing. He is nothing. If you start out with damage items on Guan Yu, like Death's Toll, Morningstar and things like that, and he is just absurdly squishy. You start with defensive items like Iron Mail or Mark of the Vanguard, and his waveclear is absolutely meaningless. Even with Hand of the Gods 2, on a 60s cooldown, he has nothing to offer.

Conviction & Painless need an overhaul. A heal for 170 health at max rank is pathetic, even with the passive stacked up, which is 340. Why? Because how on earth are you going to get hit by 20 ticks before needing to heal? The only gods I can think of that have so many harmless ticks are Ah Muzen Cab with his Bees! & Honey and Arachne with her poison claws. Because Ao Kuang tornadoes aren't really so pleasant to endure, much like Plague of Locusts and Death Gaze aren't. This passive is too situational and ineffective. Even in lane, when you get hit by minions, it isn't worth it, because you need to max Taolu Assault first for wave clear, so the heal isn't gonna benefit from the passive. And when you do max the heal, you are already out of lane, or the damage from minions has dropped down to the point where it doesn't matter anymore.

On top of that, he has lost his niche long before the warriros nerf. Remember when he had a 30 shred on Taolu Assault? Those were the good days. He was so unique in that sense and felt so good.


Painless - Change the name to Infectious Leadership.

"Guan Yu's courageous leadership is infectious, both to allies and enemies.

Allies: When Guan Yu is affected by the protection buff from Taolu Assault,healing allies with Conviction grants them the same amount of protections for 3s and refreshes the duration of the protection buff on Guan Yu.

Enemies: When enemy gods are affected by the protection debuff from Taolu Assault, Guan Yu's Warrior's Will and each swing from Cavalry Charge refresh the duration of the debuff."

Conviction - Remove the protection buff. Increase the base heal from 50/80/110/140/170 to 60/95/130/165/200 and add 100% scaling to it. Healing also cleanses all slows from the target. Keep the cooldown reduction if healed allies.


Warrior's Will - I say increase the slow so it would scale. 22/24/26/28/30% seems good.

Taolu Assault - Buff up the shred from 3/4/5/6/7 to 6/7/8/9/10. Reduce the scaling from 20% to 15% per tick and increase the base damage from 15/25/35/45/55 to 20/30/40/50/60. Make it grant him protections again. Give him root immunity when channelling this ability.

Cavalry Charge - Reduce the base damage from 75/100/125/150/175 to 70/85/100/115/130. Increase the scaling from 20% to 30%. Reduce the stun duration from a flat 1.5s to 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by anshsmite » June 25, 2014 12:33am | Report
Guan yu is at a tricky spot right now. His main skill taolu is low on damage and makes him exposed to damage. His mana requirements are enormous. I would like him in a support role or a jungler. Barring a few specialist junglers like thana, bastet and co., he can be a gud wild card jungler.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HiFromBuddha » June 25, 2014 1:09am | Report
Jordenito wrote:

Painless - Change the name to Infectious Leadership.

"Guan Yu's courageous leadership is infectious, both to allies and enemies.

Allies: When Guan Yu is affected by the protection buff from Taolu Assault,healing allies with Conviction grants them the same amount of protections for 3s and refreshes the duration of the protection buff on Guan Yu.

Enemies: When enemy gods are affected by the protection debuff from Taolu Assault, Guan Yu's Warrior's Will and each swing from Cavalry Charge refresh the duration of the debuff."

Conviction - Remove the protection buff. Increase the base heal from 50/80/110/140/170 to 60/95/130/165/200 and add 100% scaling to it. Healing also cleanses all slows from the target. Keep the cooldown reduction if healed allies.


Warrior's Will - I say increase the slow so it would scale. 22/24/26/28/30% seems good.

Taolu Assault - Buff up the shred from 3/4/5/6/7 to 6/7/8/9/10. Reduce the scaling from 20% to 15% per tick and increase the base damage from 15/25/35/45/55 to 20/30/40/50/60. Make it grant him protections again. Give him root immunity when channelling this ability.

Cavalry Charge - Reduce the base damage from 75/100/125/150/175 to 70/85/100/115/130. Increase the scaling from 20% to 30%. Reduce the stun duration from a flat 1.5s to 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5.



I understand it isn;t the main point, but when changing Gods, don't fall into the trap of simply changing a minor point of every ability. Hit the power of some unnecessary things to give him some weaknesses, but make sure his good points feel great to use.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Jordenito » June 25, 2014 7:25am | Report
HiFromBuddha wrote:
I understand it isn;t the main point, but when changing Gods, don't fall into the trap of simply changing a minor point of every ability. Hit the power of some unnecessary things to give him some weaknesses, but make sure his good points feel great to use.

Looking back, I might have gotten a little bit carried away, but only in Conviction, I think. it doesn't really need the slow cleanse. I can agree with you on that it was out of place.

But, the change to Warrior's Will is minor, but still important. I can't see a reason not to have it.

The change on Taolu Assault brings back his niche. I reduced the scaling and increased the base damage to give him more early clear. Though, since I did buff the shred, maybe I shouldn't have touched the damage...

I reduced the base damage on his ult because currently, it has the highest base damage out of all of the abilities in the game. And it has lower scaling than Taolu Assault. So I cut off the edge from the two. The stun duration reduction is just there for life quality.

His new passive is just all about his shred and Taolu Assault, which was, is and always will be the core of Guan Yu. Guan is Taolu Asault, he is the protection shred. So, lets give him a passive that revolves around that instead of a pathetic up-to-170 healing increase.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HiFromBuddha » June 25, 2014 9:08am | Report
Jordenito wrote:

Looking back, I might have gotten a little bit carried away, but only in Conviction, I think. it doesn't really need the slow cleanse. I can agree with you on that it was out of place.

But, the change to Warrior's Will is minor, but still important. I can't see a reason not to have it.

The change on Taolu Assault brings back his niche. I reduced the scaling and increased the base damage to give him more early clear. Though, since I did buff the shred, maybe I shouldn't have touched the damage...

I reduced the base damage on his ult because currently, it has the highest base damage out of all of the abilities in the game. And it has lower scaling than Taolu Assault. So I cut off the edge from the two. The stun duration reduction is just there for life quality.

His new passive is just all about his shred and Taolu Assault, which was, is and always will be the core of Guan Yu. Guan is Taolu Asault, he is the protection shred. So, lets give him a passive that revolves around that instead of a pathetic up-to-170 healing increase.


Missing the point.

Right now, as opposed to giving him clear, defined strengths and clear defined weaknesses, your just buffing him overall so everything becomes stronger.

The best type of MOBA is not one where there a bunch of very strong solid picks. In fact, the most interesting ones come when the game is full of niche picks that have certain games where they may shine. The main way to achieve this is to trim away the unnecessary aspects of a character.

Warriors Will, especially the slow, is definitely not a defining feature of Guan Yu, and simply buffing the slow will add no noticeable, appreciable benefit to Guan.

Something like Cavalry Charge is very defining. Heck, the reason why one would want to play Guan Yu is because you want to jump on a horse and then dive into the fray leading your team. I feel like this defining gameplay should be the thing that is accentuated because this is what people should know Guan Yu for. There's nothing wrong with it having a high potential base damage if it's hard to hit, because it just makes it all the more rewarding to use, and that's a part of defining what a god is good for.

Regarding your changes specifically, Warrior's Will change is unnecessary. Power that is there, but won;t be appreciated. Not good to have. Cavalry Charge doesn't need any damage or scaling alterations. The stun duration on Cavalry Charge doesn't need to scale with level either. The enemy aspect of the passive is unnecessary, and possibly even too strong considering what the allied aspect can already do. The buffs to Taolu Assault should go through, but I think the damage as a whole on it should go down, no compensation, the power from everything else it gives is already really strong, and a I feel like in this case, the utility is much more interesting than the damage.

Personally, I didn't mind the slow cleanse on Conviction. In fact, I feel like Conviction is a good way to actually help enforce Guan Yu's role as a teamfight buffing 'Saint of War'. Thematically, this ability has great potential. The cooldown reduction, while it does encourage friendly ally behaviour, is unneeded with the new changes that would be implemented. While adding more power onto it might put it on borderline broken, I feel like instead we can put the suggested passive on Conviction by default, and add another passive.
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