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Does anyone know if you can give anyone negative protection?

lets say you are up against a Loki without Voidblade at lvl 20 (69 physical protection by my math), and you got Warrior Tabi, The Executioner, Jotun's Wrath and Voidblade (witch is 70 flat penetration with 3 stacks of executioner). Would that make Loki have 0 or -1 protection for you?

I would guess it only goes down to 0, but if anyone got a link or something to clarify it for me that would be great (only got my mac with me so can't check it out myself).

What we figured out after testing it out:

: Is a debuff which reduces the targets protection by 5 + 7% of the targets max protection (before debuffs etc) per stack.
: Is a aura debuff which reduces the targets protection by 15 (after the patch when tier 3 was split into two).
: Is a percentage penetration which reduces the targets protection by 33% (after debuffs).
, and Focused Voidblade: Is flat penetration items, which is subtracted from the targets protection (after debuffs and percentage penetration).

So lets say we got every penetration item (Focused Voidblade) you can get vs a good with no protection except the natural protection (no protection items):
Protection numbers
Penetration numbers

A would have 8 + (20*2.2) = 52 protection at lvl 20.

First we do the debuff stacks from .
First stack 52*7/100=3,64+5=8,64. Second stack 8,64*2=17,28. Third stak 8,64*3=25,92.

Then we got Poseidon down to 26,08 protection with the 3 stacks up.

( aura would put him down to 11,08 protection).

Then its down to the (lets say we didn't have the aura from ).
The percentage will be 26,08*33/100=8,61

Then we got Poseidon down to 17,47 protection with the 3 stacks up.

And last, but not least we are down to the flat penetration.
, and Focused Voidblade puts the flat penetration up to 15+15+25=55 (50 is the cap) flat penetration.

Then we got Poseidon down to -37,53 (0 is the cap) protection with the 3 stacks up.

Your total penetration will be 25,92+8,61+50=84,53

Then the damage would be like this (lets say your base damage is 300):
300x100/(100+52-84,53 (52 because the cap is 0))=300 damage.

I tested out the negative protection myself, and I found out that the cap was 0 (Loki lvl 1 with 100 physical power and 40 penetration did 100 damage to Isis lvl 1 with no extra protection).

Hopefully my math is right now, would be hilarious if I manage to screw it up again xD

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I tried your situation in a practice joust. With 3 stacks on executioner I did 317 damage to Loki. Adding a Titan's Bane boosted it to 362 with 3 stacks on executioner. It seems like it can go negative.

Situation without Bane

With Bane

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I thought that Titan's bane reduce protection by percentage

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wrote:

I thought that Titan's bane reduce protection by percentage

Damn forgot that part.
Nothing I can find will show if protections can go below 0.
I'll figure something out to test it.

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Once again, from LoL knowledge, protections can indeed go negative. When they go negative, they do all the sums for damage reduction, but instead of subtracting it from the player's damage, it adds on.

In short, yes, protections can go negative and it multiplies your damage as opposed to reduces it.

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i remember ponpon saying protections can go negative. tho i dont have a proof. i can get some if you want me too.

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Thx guys!
I know that the formula for protection is this:
Original damage*100/(100+amount of protection-amount of penetration you have)(-) = damage after protection mitigation.

which gives:

300x100/(100+100-50)=200
300x100/(100+100-150)=600

Am I wrong or is penetration the best way to go when it comes to damage output?

And also if anyone can clarify it, when does the percentage from and apply, is it before or after flat pen?

I know that comes first because that is a aura debuff so that would come before percentage as well I would guess. The same with the stacks from because the are also debuffs.

So with only and vs a god with 125 protection:
Aura = 125-25=100
Stacks = 100-((100x7/100=7)+5) on the first stack, 88-((88x7/100=5,81)+5) on the second stack and 77,19-((77,19x7/100=5,4)+5) on the third stack.

A total of 58,21 penetration at 3 stacks and which makes the target have 66,79 protection. If you put a on top of that, it will give you 66,79x33/100=22,04 penetration. This will be 44,75 protection, and with the flat pen from and it would bring the protection down to 14,75.

Does this seem like it is correct to you guys?

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Aura Pen > On hit % > On Hit Flat > % > Flat
going with the correct type of pen is important, thats why bruisers (talking about 4 defensive item bruisers) gets a pen item for whatever purpose he is there for.

your kalkulations seems legit, even tho 100 negative pen is impossible right now ;)

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% reduction > flat reduction > % penetration > flat penetration

I don't know why people still post this wrong Aura first stuff - so easy testable.... :/

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wrote:

% reduction > flat reduction > % penetration > flat penetration

I don't know why people still post this wrong Aura first stuff - so easy testable.... :/

If you walk up to someone with Voidblade you are going to apply the debuff and give the -25 physical protection, and then when you hit someone with The Executioner you will start to apply the debuffs from that one as well (aura-->percentage pen-->flat pen). That's at least the logical way to look at it if you put some thought into it, but if you got a good explanation for aura not to be first I'm all ears. :)

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Penetration

What we figured out after testing it out:

Then we got Poseidon down to 26,08 protection with the 3 stacks up.

Then we got Poseidon down to 17,47 protection with the 3 stacks up.

Then we got Poseidon down to -37,53 (0 is the cap) protection with the 3 stacks up.

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