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The Book of Thoth

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Forum » Theory Crafting » The Book of Thoth 18 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Webster0 » August 25, 2015 4:33am | Report
Firstly I play console smite, just getting that out the way. The reason for this thread is I am curious to know what people think about this item. In theory with mostly mana+power items would this not be one of the best mage pure damage items?

I'm not claiming it is, just curious as to why it doesn't seem to be based on builds I have seen on this site.

Thanks.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Vithaliy » August 25, 2015 6:14am | Report
I'll give you my opinion on this :

- It does not give cooldown reduction you can get from Chronos' Pendant
- It does not provide the penetration you can get from Obsidian Shard or Spear of the Magus
- It does not provide the lifesteal you can get from Bancroft's Talon
- It does not provide the extra ability power that you can get from Soul Reaver's passive
- AA mages would also use Demonic Grip and/or Telkhines Ring
- It requires stacking a lot (75 if I remember correctly) to be fully efficient, and that's a problem for "squishy" mages like Ra, Zeus or Anubis that don't have good escapes and can't afford to wait
- When fully stacked it is very powerful, but still not as good as Rod of Tahuti that gives +25% MP

To sum-up, it's a good item, but you might still not use it if you need to strengthen your early-mid game. You'll still get Shoes of Focus first, Bancroft's Talon probably second (for sustain), Chronos' Pendant third (to have 40% CDR early), Rod of Tahuti fourth (even third if you're winning the mid lane), Obsidian Shard as fifth (for ability penetration) and Soul Reaver to complete that to give extra power to you abilities.
You could also consider the Gem of Isolation for it's good passive and appreciable HP bonus, and Rod of Asclepius for healers ( Hel, Ra,...).

For AA mages like Chronos or Ao Kuang, you'll have to include Demonic Grip (instead of Soul River, even if you get it earlier)... but you can consider replacing Obsidian Shard by the the Book of Thoth for Chronos.

It is always tricky to get a consistent build, and not all mages work the same way...
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by BestMinionEver » August 25, 2015 10:22am | Report
Book is OP, but it gives nothing but power and mana.

Perfect for a glasscanon build ;)
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Greenevers » August 25, 2015 10:59am | Report
Book of Thoth is a good item if you're going for a bunch of early power and if you're mana hungry. Don't worry about the stacks, you get most of the power from just buying the item. 20 something extra power by the time you stack it.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Devampi » August 25, 2015 10:38pm | Report
Vithaliy wrote:

I'll give you my opinion on this :

- It does not give cooldown reduction you can get from Chronos' Pendant
- It does not provide the penetration you can get from Obsidian Shard or Spear of the Magus
- It does not provide the lifesteal you can get from Bancroft's Talon
- It does not provide the extra ability power that you can get from Soul Reaver's passive
- AA mages would also use Demonic Grip and/or Telkhines Ring
- It requires stacking a lot (75 if I remember correctly) to be fully efficient, and that's a problem for "squishy" mages like Ra, Zeus or Anubis that don't have good escapes and can't afford to wait
- When fully stacked it is very powerful, but still not as good as Rod of Tahuti that gives +25% MP

To sum-up, it's a good item, but you might still not use it if you need to strengthen your early-mid game. You'll still get Shoes of Focus first, Bancroft's Talon probably second (for sustain), Chronos' Pendant third (to have 40% CDR early), Rod of Tahuti fourth (even third if you're winning the mid lane), Obsidian Shard as fifth (for ability penetration) and Soul Reaver to complete that to give extra power to you abilities.
You could also consider the Gem of Isolation for it's good passive and appreciable HP bonus, and Rod of Asclepius for healers ( Hel, Ra,...).

For AA mages like Chronos or Ao Kuang, you'll have to include Demonic Grip (instead of Soul River, even if you get it earlier)... but you can consider replacing Obsidian Shard by the the Book of Thoth for Chronos.

It is always tricky to get a consistent build, and not all mages work the same way...

Soul Reaver only gives extra damage not power from it's passive. Also I don't know how rammed this item got into the meta as I haven't seen it in a long time. warlock's sash and book of toth was always more popular and are the items smite recommend as core. the 15% damage is only good against tanks as normally they will take the damage in a teamfight. and stacking as a mage is really easy throw your clear is normally enough and otherwise basic attack every creep once.

and also Imo mage builds are pretty consisted for me the only things I swap really are boots pen and sometimes CDR ( Breastplate of Valor) depending on god and teams:
-boots
-stacking item (or rod of Aesculapius for Ra)
-CDR
-lifesteal (you need to take the stacking item early off course but book of toth is one of the items you can get late as the stacks aren't as important)
-tahuti
-pen
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Vithaliy » August 26, 2015 12:05am | Report
I also prefer the Warlock's Sash if I have to go for a stacking item, because it gives good HP, but I try not to stack with mages, only with guardians.

Yes, extra damage (15% of target's HP), not power, sorry for the wrong wording. Still I think this is way better than Book of Thoth for ability based mages.

Greenevers wrote:

Book of Thoth is a good item if you're going for a bunch of early power and if you're mana hungry. Don't worry about the stacks, you get most of the power from just buying the item. 20 something extra power by the time you stack it.


I still don't think that it's good for early game (but don't worry I can change my mind, I already did regarding Malice vs Rage :p). For the same price you can have Chronos' Pendant, ok it give you 25% less MP, but it gives your 25 MP5 (which better IMO than 125 mana) and more importantly 25% cooldown, which can save your life, especially for gods like Poseidon, Zeus or Janus that are ability dependent for escapes.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Zilby » August 26, 2015 12:12am | Report
@Devampi, in terms of damage, getting penetration before Rod of Tahuti will work better. Soul Reaver is most often used on gods that don't really use lifesteal since they're more focused on one shotting people like Janus or Scylla. Generally it's bought 6th after pen and tahuti.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Vithaliy » August 26, 2015 12:32am | Report
Zilby wrote:

@Devampi, in terms of damage, getting penetration before Rod of Tahuti will work better.


Yes you're right, but I've recently seen it bought really early (1 active and 1 tier-1 item + Rod of Tahuti)... and you can say it's done by a noob, but it actually was Lassiz (team Eager) in the game of the year

I don't know why he did that, cause I also buy it as a 4th item (most of the time before penetration, cause I want to put pressure on the mid lane, not for the team fight yet)
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by NekoNation » August 26, 2015 12:48am | Report
I dont usually get this item for mages with the only exception of Kukulkan. This item was made for him, as it works so well with his passive.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by ThePerfectPrism » August 26, 2015 8:07am | Report
Tbh I like Book of Thoth on Nu Wa, since her health pool is not that small ( 1900 max level ) and it makes you hit harder. With my guide's build ( Book of Thoth, Shoes of Focus, Bancroft's Talon, Soul Reaver, Obsidian Shard and Rod of Tahuti.) Nu Wa's Shining Metal does 507 damage, with Book not stacked. With Warlock's Sash, Shining Metal did 456 damage, both without Soul Reaver passive.

Essentially : Book is good on gods with big Nuking ults or with Full Map Ults but really weak ( Fire Shards, Release The Kraken! ) So yeah.
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