Assassins
EASY
Mercury is looking mostly for the same things you are. Farm up then wreck face in the late game. The important thing in this match up is
not letting him do that If you play passive and let him farm your team will have to deal with him later on. Meaning you can't dive the enemy back line as safely since supports and tanks will be peeling for your mages and hunter and not so much for you. Try to set up early kills with your mid laner and/or support to shut him down early. A mercury without farm isn't anywhere near as much of a threat as you will be if you farm correctly. Getting your
Heartseeker done early is key here since a
Mercury won't be building it and won't have the same power spike that you get from it. Looking for kills and aggressive plays when you finish it can be key to establishing an early lead.
EASY
Nemesis is a pretty easy match-up for
Kali. She brings little to no early game pressure or damage and has very little kill potential in the early game. She's kind of similar to
Kali in a way in that her early game sucks ***, but she has no where near as strong late game as
Kali does. That being said she does have a decent power spike in the mid game after 3 or 4 items. But generally she's very easy to deal with, especially if you grab
Winged Blade early on. Just be careful of getting hit by divine judgment plus a mage ult, you'll die really quickly. Pre level 5 you're pretty much even in terms of aggressive potential but once she gets her first few items online you have to be careful. But once again,
Heartseeker is a good time to start looking for kills and invades against a
Nemesis
MEDIUM
Arachne is looking for early game kills to snowball since her late game teamfight presence is very poor. It's by no means an easy match-up. But as long as you play the early game well. Aka not getting over aggressive and dying to her burst, you should be fine. Once it gets to endgame you're kind of fighting 5 v 4.5 since she doesn't bring much except a bit of single target damage in a fight. So just waiting it out until late game is key here. It's worth noting that her ult counter's yours really well. It gets her away from you can can bait out your ult leaving her to crash down and finish you off from 15% HP really quickly. Be careful of getting baited too much and stick with your team and you should be just about ok in this match-up.
MEDIUM
Awilix is another one of those early game match-ups that
Kali has some trouble dealing with. The pressure she puts out with
Feather Step (Especially with a
Heartseeker proc) and her ability to pull you out of position with
Gravity Surge makes it hard for you to survive the early game especially if you don't know the match-up that well. The main key here is to never get caught with your back to her and make sure you get purification as your 1st relic. Try and stay out of range of
Feather Step since that's her main damage scource early on and try to poke with
Lash if you can but make sure you play it safe. She's likely going to look for invades on your buffs and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. Her
Feather Step is great for securing them. Just look to get wins elsewhere or try to contest them but don't kill yourself over a buff, losing that much farm is disastrous for
Kali. Once you get to lategame you'll be doing way more than she is so just make your team aware you likely won't be ganking as much as her and hope for the best.
MEDIUM
From the general idea you'd think that since
Fenrir is early game focused he'd be a bad match-up for
Kali but that's not entirely true. As long as you don't play like an idiot this match-up is relatively easy. Make sure you get purification to counter
Ragnarok and save your
Nimble Strike and/or
Incense for avoiding
Brutalize damage. Try to avoid getting CC chained by something like
Unchained into
Spirit Ball into
Dispel Magic or a similar combo. This is a surefire way to earn you a trip back to the base. Play this match-up smart and you can even land early kills if the
Fenrir goes aggressive and wastes both his movement abilities without follow-up. Try to coordinate as best you can with your mid or solo. A first blood for you is pretty much a win for you and a loss for him as long as you don't throw the lead.
MEDIUM
Camazotz brings a tonne of burst to the table and can catch you out if you aren't ready for it. His ult works similarly to
Arachne's in that he can wait out your ult and survive in the air then drop down and finish you off once
Destruction expires. He has a lot sustain and it can be difficult to burst him down, especially in the early game. Look to farm in this one and maybe look for kills and poke once you finish
Heartseeker and/or
Qin's Sais. You won't have any kill potential realistically before then unless he messes up bad or you have a really high pressure solo/mid laner.
MEDIUM
Thor brings a lot of early game pressure and burst with the double tap, as well as faster clear than you. As long as you be careful of his burst in the early game you can quite safely get the late game.
Thor is still a good presence late game but nothing compared to you. Be careful of CC chains in this match-up as well since a good
Anvil of Dawn -->
Mjolnir's Attunement -->
Tectonic Rift can lock you in a chain while not allowing you to ult.
MEDIUM
Hun Batz is one of those gods that's just generally quite strong in all phases of the game. His passive:
Infused Strikes can often land early kills since people don't expect the damage coming out from his crits early on. He's generally going to out clear and out rotate you so it's important to communicate with your team and let them know he's coming. A good
Fear No Evil can easily spell a few kills for the enemies if used right. Late game he can be a great team fight presence too with a great ult and high basic attack damage from crits. You're actually relatively even from levels 1 to 4 but once you get ults he generally has the upper hand. Looking for early kills if you have a high pressure mage in mid such as
Eset is good. Be aware that you can easily stop his 2 with
Incense when he goes for it and hit him with your
Lash and some autos to really turn the tables around in a fight.
MEDIUM/
HARD
Yet another early game match-up. It's important to remember how much burst
Thanatos has with
Death Scythe and not get caught out before you can ult and get away. He'll likely be using
Hovering Death as initiation or chase since it doesn't execute you in
Destruction. Though if he sneaks it without you looking he could execute you before you can pop
Destruction. In the end-game he's just looking for executes mostly and you shouldn't be putting your focus on him too much. Go for the carries and leave thanatos to your tanks and hunter/mage to deal with.
HARD
Bastet is a
really difficult match-up for
Kali. With her insane early game pressure and fast clear along with endless slows and a jump to chase you down. She can be a very formidable foe. Not to mention she can also kind of 'bypass' your ult early on with her
Razor Whip. If she applies it at the right time just as your ult ends the bleed will drain the 15% heal you got and kill you. Do note this only works early on though. (Usually between lvls 5 and 12). You have to play this match-up relatively passively since you'll likely lose mid lane clear unless you have someone like
Eset or
Poseidon in mid. A
Winged Blade 3rd item is a good idea in this match-up since her main way to chase you is through the slows from declaw and cat call. The extra health will also help against her
Razor Whip killing you from your ult. She'll be looking for invades as much as possible so just be careful of cats and her early game burst and don't kill yourself to secure a buff.
HARD
Ne Zha brings a lot to the table early game. Given that
Wind Fire Wheels can almost half-health people early game he brings a tonne of burst to the table that is hard to deal with. Not to mention that
Wind Fire Wheels is probably the sole best counter to
Destruction maybe joint with
Last Breath from
Serqet. A good
Ne Zha ult makes your ult pretty much useless since he just ults you as soon as yours is about to run out and negates that 15% heal. Look to play this one passive and don't go near him with less than 40% health unless you know his ult is down since he'll just
Armillary Sash into
Wind Fire Wheels and one shot you.
HARD
Serqet is probably the hardest match-up you're gonna face as
Kali. She has ridiculous burst and all-in potential and can easily kill you from 60 or 70% health in the mid game with
Cobra's Kiss -->
Deathbane -->
Last Breath and your ult is basically useless if she's around since she just ults you and you can't heal from the ult while you also take bleed damage. She can negate heals from targets and easy pull ahead in the early game. In this match-up you've just got to hope your team can carry you through the early game and just play safe or she will just kill you.
But I'm not a fan of the hearthseeker 2nd item (maybe not even worth at all now after the price change). Yes it is a good burst, but I think it would be better to get it after fatalis if it is worth (ms is always op). And Kali early has always been good imo. 3-2 combo then jump out is just super safe and a ton of damage. And im thinking bluestone will be more than enough early power to get you set up for mid game (which s the real problem imo).
But maybe DT is better?
Ill do some jungle practice and see what i prefere :p
Nice build :)
Item descriptions are good, but I'd experiment with some BB coding and spacing. Don't get me wrong because this guide is very neat with Zilby's template. Underneath
Kali has a very basic combo, idk if you want to add it in or not - the
Your gameplay explanations are good. Just some cleaning up can be done, similar to your item explanations. The picture of the warding map can be cropped to take out the white, and made a little smaller. Whatever you think will look better. On the warding and gameplay sections, see how it looks with a space after each rule/heading. Looks a bit cluttered right now. In the warding section you can add the harpies next to the gold fury and how important that is for vision. Free ward that can't be taken down, while also giving you a small amt of xp/gold.
Maybe mention where you start in the jungle and jungle routes, because I think most inexperienced players struggle with this part of the jungle. This isn't a straight jungle guide, but mentioning routes, and how to start off will help. After starting with the mid or solo lane, should I go for buffs or mids? When should I be aggressive and take the enemy jungle? When should I get elementals, and is it worth more to contest those instead of taking two buffs? etc etc...
Matchups - Mention how you can stun and interrupt
Good job on the write-up! Now it's just the small things, and you'll have a top-notch guide. Some small typos/grammatical errors:
period after last sentence in Nem matchup & "aswell" -> as well in Gameplay: Mid Game
Any links to some good examples would be great. I've got no experience with BB coding at all really. Besides a bit I've learnt using this template.
I mention the combo somewhere, might be somewhere in match ups but you're right that it's worth a larger mention.
Gonna update as soon as I can with a lot of the stuff you've suggested here, thanks for the feedback and compliments!
Just going through the guides and since you have 0 comments (sadly), I thought I'd give you one.
It's clear you know the god. Your explanations are generally solid, and your build items are as well. It's cool that you provide a crit build for those that prefer it (even though you know and explain that Qin's is better).
On your explanation of a couple of items, I think some additional points might be helpful, or sometimes some adjustments to what you say could be made. For example, and I know it's opinion, but you say 3 hits to max
Speaking of O-Bow, again, it has 0 power. You also have another item that has 0 power, but is absolutely core...Fatalis. 2 items with 0 power, and another with low base power (Heart) make that a somewhat low power build. Sure, she makes up for it a bit with
Also, with the writeup of
One other thing, you might consider adding info on how to tie the abilities together...I know there's not much to comboing, but maybe a bit more on optimal times to use each ability would be nice.
Anyway, great overall guide.
Some of the things may seem a little wierd, I've tried to correct most things when I brought this guide up to date for season 4 (It was written in s3) but there could be some things that haven't been changed/updated that I missed.
In regards to executioner. 1, it doesn't work that well with Titan's Bane and tbh I think Titans is almost always the better option. In reality you can build either, I should probably mention that in the guide. But I do swing heavily towards Titan's in this case, unless you REALLY need the attack speed. Having to land 3 autos before getting the extra damage just seems like too long to me. In the 1 second it takes (minimum, it could be more, you won't always land 3 consecutive autos without being disrupted) you lose a lot of damage, killing quickly is really important for Kali to get heals and get onto another target or get out.
Crusher just doesn't give enough in Kali's case. The CDR isn't really useful at all so I wouldn't replace O-bow with it. As for O-bow. The build example I have going only has 35% AS without O-bow (Since the fatalis change). Kali has 1.43 base AS at level 20, that only puts her on 1.78 AS, add the 15% crusher for 1.93. In my view, that's not enough to really utilize Qin's properly. With O-bow you get up to 2.18 which is better. A lot of your damage on Kali comes from proccing Qin's Sais as much as possible. With Kali's AA chain you get autos off really quick and having more AS just augments that. It also helps to ensure you can keep fatalis effect up as much as possible. It could be replaced by Asi or Ichaival if you want, but I don't think Crusher is a great replacement.
Yeah, here's an example of what I listed earlier. 300 prots is unrealistic with the way people have been building in s4, even on solo laners. I'll change that now, ty. Also will add the objective push point. Can't believe I missed that tbh. That's one of the reason I love Titan's bane so much :L
Don't change anything yet...contest is still going on. Wanted to throw that out right now. Follow-up comment incoming.
That said, let me give you a direct comparison of your standard build #1 vs. a proposed change. That change would be to use
We'll specifically look at one stat...DPS. I always compare the build against different levels of protections at level 20, so they are generally as follows:
Anyway, here are the DPS numbers:
Your base build #1:
My alt build, with 0 Exe stacks:
My alt build, with full Exe stacks:
So, against squishy gods, even with no stacks, the Exe/BBS combo has essentially identical DPS. This is very important to consider, as they will be your main targets. Knowing that, overall, there's little damage difference between the two is very nice.
Against tankier gods, I personally feel that Exe is also the better choice. You mention lack of damage before stacks, but again, that's mostly going to be for a short time...1 second, 2 seconds, whatever, it's still pretty short. At those full stacks, you're doing more DPS, and it's not like you're bursting a healing Herc down that quickly anyway. You're going to overall do more damage to a tankier god with Exe than you are with TB, hands down.
Biggest consideration, of course, is tower damage, and if your team isn't doing much there, it might mean TB is the better choice (though late game I'd always consider switching it out for Exe).
Anyway, hope this is helpful. Would like to hear your further thoughts.
DPS assumes you're landing every auto attack as quickly as possible etc etc. Currently I'm seeing a lot of Hunter's picking up Exe which reduces the value of having it on Kali a little bit. Of course, at it's maximum potential Exe will be better in every way but structure damage, it has more pen and attack speed at the loss of only 5 power. But in my opinion those 3 basics are critical. From what I experience, I'm often peeled off or have to disengage fairly often. Not to mention that those first 3 autos will do like 40% of someone's health. Also, executioner isn't a buff for you. It's a debuff for the enemy and so when you land the kill or they get away. You're back at square one when choosing a new target. It's also worth a mention that Titan's is cheaper. Most games won't go to the point where you're full build and can sell your items for replacements. Especially since you need to spend money on rituals now too. But I do agree that selling it (assuming you can) for exe late game is usually the better route to go.
Once again, this was written before the s4 patch and I think I forgot a little bit to factor in the price change that Titan's got, prior to that in my opinion there's little contest. With how cheap it was back then it was nearly always better, getting items online fast for power spikes is important for keeping Kali in the game and not falling behind. That's why I love Heartseeker so much on her. With the prices change it does definitely bring them closer though, and there is the argument for Kali's chain working well for stacking exe up quickly. I guess it's a bit of personal preference and depends on how your games are as well. For me, those first few autos are really key to whether I get a kill or not. But the more damage over sustained fights from exe could be useful too. Since the TB nerf honestly it's kind of a toss up based on what you prefer and what you wanna do in the match though.
And yes, I know Exe is a debuff, trust me. But let's explore this further, which I think still supports Exe in the end, at least as the stronger overall pick when looking mostly for damage against gods.
You say that the first hit or two are crucial. Have you looked at the actual numbers? I'll break it down in actual hit damage, not DPS this time. Each box will have 3 numbers...first is dmg to squishy, second is dmg to bruiser, third is damage to tank.
TB + Oddy
Exe + BBS
Against your squishy targets, even your first hit is doing more damage with the Exe build. You're doing less damage on initial hits against tanky gods, but let's just take the tankiest example...
In 2 hits (before Exe beats out TB), TB does 151 + 151 = 302 damage. Exe does 131 + 144 = 275 damage. Is 27 damage significant at all against a tanky god? With these numbers, I'd argue that those first couple of hits aren't crucial at all, other than you're going to need those two hits (plus a ton more) to take down a god 1 v 1 anyway.
On top of all this, with Exe + BBS, you have 40 more power than TB + Oddy, which means that ability and HS damage can potentially be higher (always higher against squishy gods, even with 0 stacks). To me, the case stands that Exe is straight up superior if considering damage against gods.
Part of this game is feel, though, and if you're more comfortable with TB, more power to you. It definitely has its pros.
Sure, the second and third hit will do half damage, but they will be applied twice as fast.
This will also apply the