Blessing
Ususally will be the best starter item on
Ne Zha. Helps he clear and sustain, and eventually gives Pen. However, his clear is pretty good, and he has healing built into his kit, so he doesn’t need it as much as most.
If you are feeling cheeky, you can buy
Mage's Blessing. Still helps his ability-based clear and mana sustain, but gives better poke and grants Cooldown Reduction instead of penetration.
Assassin's Blessing is better, but if you really like CDR this is an option.
Relics
Cool Toys
Level 1
At first level, you are going to want a defensive relic to counter their jungler/solo/mid laner and make your ganks less risky. Which one depends on what gods you are facing.
Aegis Amulet is great against
Poseidon,
Discordia,
Kali.
Purification Beads Is the better choice if facing a
Tyr,
Fenrir,
Ares etc
Level 12
If fights arent going your way, or you're getting CC'd too often, you can pick up the other relic at this level. This in particular will allow you not get caught into a team-fight.
Heavenly Wings is another good choice here.
Ne Zha doesn’t have the best chase if his abilities are out of range, basically relying on pure movement speed. This helps him a lot of you don’t need the other defensive relic.
Blink Rune is an option to let you "jump over" their frontline and target the mage and hunter. It can be hard to aim
Wind Fire Wheels out of blink, but if you get good with this combo it can give you unparalleled aggression.
Core Items
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Item 1
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The preferred choice of boots for
Ne Zha,
Warrior Tabi gives you movement speed and increases your early poke. Preferred over
Talaria Boots for the power, but Talaria is an option for the rotation speed and sustain.
After boots,
Ne Zha immediately has a few choice to make fitting your playstyle. You want:
>2+ Pen items like
The Crusher and
Jotunn's Wrath, usually flat pen as you will be targeting the backline.
>1 Crit item:
Malice. Ne Zha doesn’t need more with his passive and guarenteed crits.
>1 Defensive item to help you live after you dive the backline.
Overall the build will look something like:
Boots – Crusher - ___ - hybrid - Crit - ___ , OR
Boots – ____ - Crusher - Crit - hybrid - ___
but you can arrange some of the items depending on playstyle and the match.
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Item 2-3
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The Crusher fits
Ne Zha so well it deserves mention separate from the rest of the penetration items. You can make use of the pen and attack speed extremely well, and the passive will turn your
Universe Ring Toss from annoying to terrifying. It even adds another hit worth of damage to your ultimate.
I personally prefer not to rush this after boots (you need some power first), though some people do prefer to build it right away. With the recent changes to crit, this item slots nicely into the 3rd item, but it can be built 2nd if you really like the extra poke.
Item 3 - Burst, Poke, or Power
I feel supercharged!
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Burst
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Seemingly an odd option, Heartseeker synergizes extremely well with
Ne Zha. The extra movement speed in particular is very useful, especially early game, and allows you to skip
Talaria Boots easier. The passive scales well into the late game, helping your 3->4 combo burst people down or even instantly kill them. However, there are two issues that may have you skip this item:
1) It needs to be built early for the movement speed, which is already crowded with
The Crusher, defense item, and
Jotunn's Wrath trying for spots. If you really need the CDR, you may not be able to fit this in.
2) The passive is only useful on your 3->4 combo. If you waste it on poking with
Universe Ring Toss, this item will not be as good for you. If you find yourself losing the stacks to poke often, maybe replace this with a different pen item.
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Poke
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Treading the line between Core and Option, Jotunn's reduces the Cooldown of your ult, poke, and jungle clear.
Ne Zha likes the extra mana, and the penetration is always great help to any assassin. Benefits a playstyle heavy on abilities, especially if you use
Universe Ring Toss on cooldown.
This can be built at any point, however the cooldown reduction is more useful the longer in the game you can take advantage of it, so usually try to build it 2nd item.
This item vs
Heartseeker and
Transcendence is probably the biggest choice to make when building
Ne Zha. Heartseeker lends itself to faster rotations and a harder hitting combo; Jotunn's gives you better poke and more common ganks; and Transcendence gives raw power and mana at the cost of pen. The more you want to harass lanes, the more you should lean toward Jotunn's.
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Power
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Not actually a Pen option, this item can still fill the role of one by giving roughly
100 Power by late game. It also manages to squeeze some CDR in, which you do make great use of. Possibly more useful however is that this item completely fixes your mana problems. If you do build this, build it 3rd after
The Crusher due to its higher cost.
This item works better the more Pen you are planning on getting later, especially if you plan for
Void Shield to be your defensive pick-up. However, the low CDR still hurts, and this makes it hard for you to fit in your build elsewhere.
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Item 4-5
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Malice's newest form is tailor-made for
Ne Zha. With this item alone,
Ne Zha increases his ultimate damage by 25% or more. Even support Ne Zha should build this as a single damage item. It fits him that well.
Normally I would recommend getting a defense or hybrid item 4th and this 5th, however it is so good on
Ne Zha in its current state that building this 4th is completely viable. Just be aware of how squishy you are until you get your 5th item online.
Items 4 and 6
This a very large list of items to choose from, and nearly any two can be made to work. Personally, I don't recommend building 2 purely defense items, however that playstyle is viable if you are really good with it (you play more like a high set-up support late game).
I
Highly recommend build a hybrid item as your 4th item. Building pure defense here can really hurt your gank potential, and should only be done if you are far behind and really need some extra bulk to set up for your carry and mid
Likewise pure damage in 4th slot will make you blow up in the early team fights, but if you get ahead you can get away with it. However, there isnt much benefit to a pure damage item unless you really need anti-heal from Brawler's.
Note: You can build any of the earlier items you skipped here (like
Transcendence or
Heartseeker) if you want to, this options just tend to work better in the late game.
This should keep them off my back!
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Hybrid 1
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A way to sneak a bit of defense into
Ne Zha without losing any damage. Gives a nice 50 power and will bring you up to 45% movement speed if you built Heartseeker (which is INSANE). A decent option if the 100 health and ~20-30 protections seem like enough defense for you.
This is my personal favorite defense item on him, since you end up in the backline so often.
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Hybrid 2
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Comparable to
Masamune, trades the movement speed for even more damage. The defense is also not dependent by how many enemies are near, so it’s a bit heartier in 1v1 scenarios.
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Hybrid 3
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A perfect ‘defensive’ item against physical heavy teams. Let’s
Ne Zha go full damage while still getting some bulk. However, 2700 gold is too much for what this provides compared to
Shifter's Shield or
Masamune, and mages are extremely common right now. 100 health isn’t going to help against
Sol much.
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Damage 1
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A decent pen option that doesn’t add more damage, it instead counters healing.
Ne Zha has an easy time spreading the debuff with
Universe Ring Toss, so if there is a
Hel or
Guan Yu on the enemy team, this is definitely an item to keep in mind.
This can be built at any point after mid game when healers start to come online.
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Damage 3
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Titan's Bane will give you a huge boost in damage to the tankier targets on the team, granting up to 70 penetration! However, none of this applies to jungle camps or structures.
Titan's Bane also isnt great against ADC and mids, as they usually only have 50-70 protections, so this will end up giving less damage than something like
Heartseeker or
The Crusher to those targets.
Ne Zha is designed to avoid the tanks and delete the high-threat damage dealers, so Titan’s Bane usually isn’t worth it compared to flat penetration.
If you build this, build it last item to get the most benefit.
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Defense 1
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Extremely tanky, and gives CDR, but very expensive. Get this after
Malice so you don’t delay your damage too much.
Spirit Robe is a similar option if they have a lot of CC. These are your tankiest options if you find yourself getting caught in AoE’s and such a lot.
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Defense 2
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A super cheap item to build some bulk with. This also gives you a handy get out of jail free card, but the expense of any offense, not even CDR. A good option if you are falling behind and need a cheap and effective chunk of defense.
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Hybrid 4
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A super cheap hybrid item, specifically built to counter mages. If the enemy team is heavy (3-4 / 5) on the magic damage, especially with a magical jungler, this can be a good option to boost your protections and keep some damage.
Note: combos very well with
Void Shield if that item becomes viable.
Build:
Love the talaria pickup if this was season 4, not so sure without the gold proc. The mp5 is not needed due to his fast vlear with ring toss and the attack chain (and chalice) IMO, but the MS might be worth it on the map.
Jotunn's should be your second item 90% of the time especially if you are going talaris. The MS and burst from HS is nice but you need that extra damage from Warrior's at least in that chase and only if you are really fed (like 3-0 when you finish boots).
DB is really tempting to get on Ne Zaa for sure because of his passive, 2 and ultimate. But it is not as good as it seems, unless you are super fed and are able to constantly get your ult off on the enemy carries. But it is good if you combo it with some lifesteal and attack speed. The reduced cost might make it viable again though. But get it as your third or even second item to make some use of it before defence is online on the enemy team.
Don't like Crusher, if you know you are going DB get DB instead and as your third item and get Asi or BF instead of Crusher.
Shifter's is OP. 70 power and 15 pen like holy ****. This should be your second or third item, Jotunn's second if you aredoing well.
Winged wand is great for defence (and offence) should be your forth item and trade it for Discord later.
Also relics should be blink and beads/aegis. I prefer blink first to make some plays early and mid game. But you definitely need it lategame to get to the carries.
My normal build: Warror's, Jotunn's, Shifter's, Wingend wand, Void and Titan's/Brawler's (trading wand for discord). That way you get good defence and damage.
My dream build: Warrior's, HS, DB, Asi, Stone cutting and fatalis. Yes I like crit..
Gameplay:
Try and ult without 3 first so that you dont telegraph your abilities to much.
Use ring toss and 2 for AA cancelling.
Use 3 to interrupt stuff and to immune stuff.
Use 3-AA-ult, this will keep you from ulting into beads and gives you extra damage if they don't have beads.
My favourite combo is: 3 onto one enemy then (360 noscope) someone else with your ult. This is great in teamfights you will most of the time get the beads (if the have it) on the enemy you 3d and get a free ult on the enemy you ulted.
Ring toss is insane early so try and force 2v2s in the jungle or 2v1s (you will win most of them).
Get fed early by forcing fights where you can get good ring tosses off (mid camps and enemy jungle camps), invade and gank when you got ult as long as you have someone to set up for.
When you get to end game you are pretty much just an ult bot, ult the enemy adc or mid. Take them out off the fight and kill them or set up an easy kill. And do some protection shredding with ring toss.
This ended up being a lot of text. But hope some of it is usefull :p
Also cant wait to play some season 5 Ne Zha now ^_^
The rest of your reply is really confusing to me:
Ne Zha really needs a single crit item to take advantage of his 3 and ult, and Deathbringer is brokenly good right now, to the point that even Neith can pick it up. Getting it second item is too expensive and delays the rest of the build.
Crusher is probably the best item in the game for assassins with good poke like Ne Zha, and he likes the attack speed too. That new passive hurts.
Shifters doesn't have any penetration on it?
Winged Wand isn't an item, maybe you mean Winged Blade? but that item doesnt help with offense at all.
Stone cutting and fatalis both are pretty bad on Ne Zha as well since he opens with abilities.
Your gameplay tips are good, I will try to add those in.
Not sure what I was thinking when i typed pen on shifers, either a type or brain malfunction. But still 70 power is insane and the protections are great.
I still don't think DB is worth it (havent played Ne Zha in season 5). In season 4 and before that you did like 50 more damage on targets with no prot with it and like 100 less on ppl with one prot item with your ult. And you end up dying for every ult you use because you have no prot.
Fatalis is great, dont hate!
The attack chain on NeZha is just insane, when you get to late game it is actually pretty good to sell Jotunn's etc and build fatalis, DB, BF and Stone cutting. And just roleplay Kali, but it is best to win before you get to that stage of the game. 2K crits are pretty fun with fatalis effect though..
Winged blade makes your engage better because of the slow immunity and MS and the health lets you live longer. All of which helps you do your stuff, set up for a kill, get out and engage again without dying. So I would call that offense you can have all the damage in the world but it's not much use for your team if you are dead. :)
Let me know what you think of those options!
And i like your guide as well, also feel free to pick up some stuff from my terribly outdated guide if you feel like it. Ne Zaha needs an updated guide, and i can't be arsed to update mine..
I still think you are slightly over valuating DB though. Wasn't it just nerfed for Ne Zha?
Reduced cost from 3000 to 2800.
Increased Critical Strike Chance from 20% to 35%.
Reduced Passive Critical Strike Damage Buff from 40% to 25%.
I get that it is great on hunters because crit build is the new ****, but as your single crit item it just seems worse to me.
My goto build would be:
Warrior/talaria -> jotunns -> crusher -> shifters -> void -> Titan's/brawlers
It is actually insane.
On Ne Zha it is worse for his ultimate, but it actually really helps your auto attack dps (60% crit chance when his 2 is active)
With the changes coming in 5.2, it shifts back to being better for your ult, and worse for your autos again, so it will probably get pushed back to 5th item (which makes some build choices easier)
I can see why you wouldn't get crit on him, but personally it just synergizes too much with his passive, 2, 3, and 4 not to get it.
Late S4 DB was 3,000 gold, providing 20% crit chance and 50 power with a 40% boost to crit damage.
DB is currently 3,000 gold in 5.1 (current patch...it did start at 2,800 gold for the original PTS notes but got a hotfix). It provides 35% crit chance and 50 power, with a 25% boost to crit damage.
Next Tuesday's 5.2 patch for PC will see a drop of power from 50 to 40. All other stats will stay the same.
Cyber, going to speak for Marki here. Although DB was always considered a core item for him (due to the additional crit chance when using Flaming Spear and of course the 100% chance of the damage boost when ulting), I know that his more recent feeling of DB was that although it was nice for those things, other items were starting to be more appealing to him...I think this has to do with his ability to get a lot of use out of a wide variety of items...he's been playing him so long that he likes to experiment and play with different things that are outside of the meta. This isn't to say that DB isn't still generally core for most people, just that he was relying less on it and still having success. (Marki, is this about right?)
Anyway, so in current form, the drop in crit damage hurts his ult damage, but the increase in crit chance greatly helps his Flaming Spear, giving him 50% crit chance. In all, this makes DB an incredibly solid item for him.
In 5.2, the item will see a 10 power drop, but no other change. To me, this just makes it slightly weaker in all aspects, but I don't see how it shifts it in function at all. Slightly weaker for his ult, slightly weaker for his basics, but still retaining the same overall use. Curious as to why you think that 10 power drop changes priority back to function for his ult, Cyber?
In any case, I do feel that with that crazy 35% crit chance, it's still a core item for most users of Ne Zha.
in 5.2, Deathbringer will have: 40 power, 25% crit chance, +30% crit damage
this brings it to a half way point between the season 4 and 5.1 versions.
with it only bringing him to 40-50% crit w/ Flaming Spear and his passive, it is not as good for his autos, but the 30% damage increase brings his ult damage up a bit.
overall, I feel like this de-prioritizes it a bit from 5.1, but still leaves it a core pick up for the boost to his ult damage.
Personally, I will probably be building Boots->Jottun->Crusher->Defense->DB->Pen/Defense
So...okay, crit chance is backed down by 10%, and crit damage upped by 5% again, but still 10% lower than S4. Geez...gotta get this in my head, not sure what that really means...but yeah, your assessment of better for ult and less for basics is right. Still think 40% crit chance with his 2 makes it generally worthwhile, and the damage boost is still functional...
Trying to figure out if they got DB to the general balance I personally wanted or not, lol. Well, at least this shifts it back from being a mid-build item for hunters too. Back to my preference of Rage then Deathbringer in crit builds.
Yeah, that build looks solid.
Because he does get a bit of a MS buff with Ring Toss, and the fact that you often would get Heartseeker 2nd, you might be able to choose Warrior Tabi instead of Talaria Boots...curious on your thoughts about that.
I think he suggests Winged Blade specifically for the utility...since he's very susceptible to CC, any slows applied to him might allow him to live.
The Crusher is something I can see early, but I like that you also consider a delay til item #5 (and he'll get more out of the passive at that point due to having built higher power).
Finally, I'm in agreement with Marki on Blink Rune...getting it as first relic might be risky, but if you're less afraid of CC in the enemy comp, it's something that can work...instead of telegraphing your ult with Armillary Sash, a quick blink from distance into an immediate ult is not only satisfying (like, very satisfying lol), but it can also surprise them enough that they aren't able to get their Purification Beads off. Otherwise, it can definitely be considered as a 2nd relic, getting you quickly through the front line to get a quick kill on a squishy.
Looks like a solid guide and build to me. +1
Jotunn's vs Heartseeker 2nd item is probably the hardest choice to make when building Ne Zha, especially since Heartseeker kind of falls off late game since you cant use the MS as much. I would say you 100% need Talaria if you are picking Jotunn's. I will update the pen item section to reflect that choice.
If the enemy team has that much CC, Spirit Robe might be a better choice. I've built Winged Blade on Ne Zha a few times in season five, and Ive found that I either die anyway because of the lack of tankiness (Freya, Osiris), or can escape with Heavenly Wings / Ring Toss. Ne Zha has such a hard time fitting everything he wants into 6 slots this season, I dont think there is room for cheap utility items like Winged Blade
I honestly completely forgot about Blink Rune on him, added to the level 12 relic section.
But the extra damage from Warrior's is nasty for invades and mid camp fights.
Just get a chalice of mana or w.e. if you pick up talaria mainly for the mana. I have never seen Ne Zha as mana hungry, your clear is just so efficient.
I know you like being very aggressive with Ne Zha, and I think that Warrior Tabi probably suits you better with your playstyle in looking for early ganks. Seems like Cyber is more set on camp clear / early rotations and getting more items online before really going for kills. Is that an appropriate assessment?
I play most of my junglers as mid-game aggressors lol
Didn't even consider the early pressure playstyle on someone like Ne Zha, I'll add some comments on that in.
But that definitely depends on your playstyle :)