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To kind of lead into my next portion of this post, I looked you up on smiteguru, although there are 2 profiles, with a total of 4 matches with Bellona for a combined record of 6/25/10. There was one match on a pc account from 4 months ago and 3 recently on xbox. I am guessing that you just never merged the accounts. That sample size is not really enough, imo, to be putting out a guide for other players, especially when your kda in that small sample size is pretty bad.
Don't take this the wrong way. I have kind of been where you are. I waited a lot longer to put out a build as a new player but I at least was able to find some success with the build I originally put out there, but these types of builds will only be situationally successful, and looking at your smiteguru profile whatever you have been doing has not had any type of success at all.
This post is going to be far into the realm of tl;dr material for a lot of people. I have played over 400 matches with Bellona, and looking my profile up, my record might not seem very impressive with her(I just got her over a 2 k/d/a recently) but I went through a long process similar to what it looks like you have started here and I still have a long way to go to be where I want to be with Bellona but I had much more success when I started listening more to input from the awesome smite minds on this site while also finding ways to incorporate items I felt would be useful to my playstyle. I dug a really deep hole with her when I first started because I had a certain way I wanted to play in mind.
What I ended up finding out is that I could still play that way, basically, but because you are playing other people who can adapt/react/etc, especially with a tanky class you have to have protections in some form most of the time. I have an AA build I developed with and ran for a good while, but my k/d/a was only like a 1.58 about 300 matches in and I kept seeing the deaths far out match the kills. Don't get me wrong, I had some good matches and a few great ones, but overall it was loss after loss and I was losing games for other players as well.
This being a team game, it is only fair to TRY to win. If something isn't working, it's time to go back to the drawing board. If you are constantly dying you are doing something or multiple things wrong(even if the other team is playing well) and you really need to evaluate how many of those deaths are occuring because of bad in game strategies and how many are occurring because of bad build choices and then modify how you play accordingly. This should be an ongoing process.
Before I get into the next walls of text, there are some basic things to consider about Bellona.
She is built to be a pest. You should be getting under the other teams skin the whole match. This isn't to say that you should be diving into the enemy team all the time, because that isn't annoying, that is just free kills and most of them will be happy for an easy match. Bellona can be used very well in disrupting what the other party will be doing with her ult, she is good at saving other party members from ganks with her shield bash slow(you can lead with that and then disarm them with scourge in that situation) or her ult(which you could then go scourge to disarm and shield bash to keep from continued chasing or escape if you can secure kill), when picking spots correctly she is really good at running into combat and wrecking some havoc and then getting back out, and she is just really good at escaping in general, partly due to her passive and also due to the fact that in a pinch she has 3 escapes built into her kit(shield bash and the ult are escapes and if you are being chased even using bludgeon after shield bash can give you just enough space to get away when you otherwise would have died).
You can definitely be successful with playing a more offensive type of style on Bellona, but you still have to give a lot of thought to defense, even if you aren't taking straight defensive items. You did have a really good observation with the Reinforced Shoes. I normally love Ninja Tabi for her, but when going more offensive minded you really do need the extra protections from reinforced. I haven't had a chance to rearrange my own guide more, but I will be inputting some builds for what I believe is kind of what you are trying to do.
Basically the premise is that, yeah you are going to be packing a much better punch, but basically rotate on your item choices. If you go boots and blackthorn's or if you feel you want Frostbound Hammer{although I wouldn't suggest that this early, I wouldn't put it in until at LEAST the 4 or 5 and I normally don't do it until last. I have tested frostbound at the 2 at different times and I haven't really gotten much in the way of positive results from it and it provides you really with no utility early, which Blackthorn Hammer does by helping you sustain with mana regen and boosting your cooldowns a bit) go with a defensive item like Gauntlet of Thebes Void Shield or even Hide of the Urchin or Masamune right after. If you did not go Masamune in the last spot you could do it here if balanced opponent team with 3 magical or Stone Cutting Sword if balanced opponent team with 3 physical. Lets look at where we're at in this example and lay it out as an example: Reinforced Shoes Blackthorn Hammer Void Shield Stone Cutting Sword and now we can look at your last two items. I would probably go Masamune at the 5 and then Shifter's Shield at the 6 but it is still an option to do Frostbound Hammer at the 6 for exactly why you inserted it at the 2.
Example builds:
This post is already going to be epically long, so if you are looking through and have questions about builds or item choices in builds feel free to ask me either here or you can even message me from your profile page is you like and I will be happy to discuss anything you think to bring up.
Just a few sample builds with no need for really specific countering. Also, something to keep in mind with some of these builds is that your assists may not be as high because, while you can tank pretty well and mitigate and take damage pretty well, with situational protections from items like Shifter's Shield Stone Cutting Sword you probably won't be able to stand in the pocket for as long as if you just build regular defensive items. This will mean more trips to base some matches and losing out on being around to contribute to other kills.
Reinforced Greaves Blackthorn Hammer Gauntlet of Thebes Void Shield Masamune Shifter's Shield(a good deal of people don't care for this item, but when combined with other items to make up for the health this doesn't provide it can be a solid choice. The protections it gives you when applicable really help a lot and the boost in power when you get it is a nice extra punch)
Reinforced Greaves Blackthorn Hammer Void Shield Ancile Masamune Shifter's Shield
Reinforced Greaves Gauntlet of Thebes Void Shield Runic Shield Masamune Stone Cutting Sword
vs healing
Reinforced Greaves Gauntlet of Thebes Toxic Blade Masamune Qin's Sais The Executioner(this would be a pretty aggressive build and I would usually run Ninja Tabi with qin's and exe but you'd really need the extra protection from reinforced and toxic gives you some attack speed as well.
Reinforced Greaves Gauntlet of Thebes Brawler's Beat Stick Masamune Shifter's Shield Stone Cutting Sword
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Pestilence Masamune Shifter's Shield Stone Cutting Sword
vs tanky
Reinforced Greaves Gauntlet of Thebes Void Shield Masamune Stone Cutting Sword The Crusher
Reinforced Greaves Blackthorn Hammer Void Shield Stone Cutting Sword Masamune The Crusher
Reinforced Greaves Blackthorn Hammer Void Shield Stone Cutting Sword Qin's Sais The Executioner(not optimal attack speed since none built in before qin's but still workable)
tanky and healing
Reinforced Greaves Gauntlet of Thebes Pestilence Void Shield Stone Cutting Sword then The Crusher or Toxic Blade or Masamune
Reinforced Greaves Gauntlet of Thebes Toxic Blade Void Shield Qin's Sais The Executioner
Reinforced Greaves Gauntlet of Thebes Brawler's Beat Stick Masamune Stone Cutting Sword The Crusher
These are just suggestions off the top of my head. Depending on your team comp, the items they choose and what you are dealing with on the opposing team, some of the situationals could be switched or might not be needed, since something like two teammates getting Pestilence wouldn't stack but if someone got Pestilence you could go Toxic Blade or Brawler's Beat Stick
Not trying to blow up your discussion but just want to help. Feel free to check out my smite guru profile. https://smite.guru/profile/700969464-silentshell
I still get blown up bad at times but things have been a lot better for me since I have found a way to combine basic smite concepts, meaningful contributions to my team and my own playstyle preference together.
my bad, I had not gotten sleep yet that day and I work third shift, I was tired. lol. my bad, will fix lol
It is not a problem at all. I have gotten help with plenty of things since i joined this site and I only feel it's right to return the favor when i can and I actually feel like I am not out of my depth trying to do so. I'm by no means one of the best bellona players out there, but I have plenty of experience playing her and figuring out things that work or can work for her. The forums here would be a good place to start for getting information you might need. A lot of the regulars here are pretty tuned in to this site and you would probably have no problems getting input that way. No, i was by no means saying you were a bad player.
Well, I pulled up the profile you gave because I didn't notice the two i's for whatever reason initially and you are basically doing as well with Bellona total k/d/a wise as I probably would be if I had not done my own thing for a about 250 matches or so. lol. I was going off of the other profile information I found that was not yours. lol. You've only played about 80 or so less Bellona matches than I have, so you've probably figured out a lot of the things that I have when playing her in arena.
I have tried to go back further in your match history to look at builds but it will only allow up to 3 days. Have you always run build types similar to this with Bellona or did you just start going through the process with the build concept recently? I did see most of your matches on those 3 pages were Bellona and from the looks of it i'd guess you were testing different setups while working out your build? Looking at your recent history on Bellona I could see a lot of the same kind of matches I am used to having. If i were to look a couple of weeks from now without being able to see builds or profile names and just the Bellona matches and put them up next to each other it would be hard to pick out mine. lol.
If this is how you have been running Bellona pretty much since you started you probably have a playstyle that somehow fits with those build concepts, but I do think that you can have even more success if you continuously evaluate your build and pay close attention to trends with your kills/deaths/assists and your item choices. That doesn't even necessarily mean a particular item would have to be removed for sure, it might just need a different spot in the build to be effective. Just looking at your k/d/a and wins and losses it looks like you started yourself off in the right direction when you started playing her(unlike me lol) Things can always be refined and sometimes a different way might get you less blown up like one of the bad matches listed in your recent history. Looking at the success you have had just in your record and k/d/a I feel like you could go through a similar process to what I have been going through and raise your total k/d/a another .5 to 1 point if you are going to continue playing her so much and still have plenty of fun playing her.
I am glad you are open to assistance already being so well versed with Bellona yourself. I am sure you will get plenty of other input from more well versed players than me here, so that open mind will be helpful to any questions on any god you might have. I will look for your name when I get on next to send one. Seeing your account really has me shaking my head at where I could be with Bellona and a few other gods if I hadn't spent so much time trying to play them too far out of their intended purpose. I also chuckle because you probably already had figured out a lot of the stuff i discussed because i had the wrong profile. lol.
I can definitely understand that. Especially going off track from what a lot of other people do I want to fine tune my process as much as possible so I can keep getting better with that, but also at the same time recognizing when you might need to counter build even when I don't want to really change my build. Sometimes your counters as the tank can help change a match you would lose into one you can win.
I am not really saying your build is wack because I am a lot more flexible than a lot of other regulars here on how I run my builds in arena because it is just a different animal than the other modes. There are some trends that I have seen running similar setups or in a similar way to your build, and it may take some testing but, like I said, I feel like you could probably increase your kda with her by another .5 to 1 point if you start that process now before the competition keeps jumping up and then possibly finding yourself going the other way with it.
Even if some of my suggestions don't work for you, hopefully through testing some things it will allow you to find a setup that gives you better success. I have even, after I calmed down from just running an basic attack/attack speed build all the time when I first started, seen that even though it can be a bit boring at times you can have similar success to even your better kda matches with more standard setups. Say like, building up your defense but having enough offense to be around 100-160 physical damage from your physical power.
Something, since I am still only maybe half familiar with a lot of the gods, that I like to do is once I am in a match I will take a look at each god before I even start purchasing my items to get a feel for how I will build. Things like if there are 3 mag-2 phys, 2 mag-3 phys, 4 phys-1 mag, 1 phys-4mag. As I have gotten more familiar with what each god does I will also consider who has significant healing and/or regeneration and keep an eye out for anyone going super tanky as the match goes on. Being ready to counter build for these things will probably help you win matches your team loses and help you have a better match during one you might not have done all that well.
1. Have you ever tried putting Void Shield at the 2 spot? it is only 10 less power, gives you 150 health and while you get 15 pen from The Crusher that pen only applies to your attacks. With void shield it basically gives you 20 pen, but it is for any party members close enough to you as well. A slight dip in power but you get more survivability early and help your party get through defenses before they get built up by the other team later in the match. Void shield is not going to do as much good for you the later you place it in your build. It could help you and your team do more true damage and secure more kills earlier, rather than just being able to do that for yourself with crusher.
2, Runic Shield earlier would also be a bit more beneficial earlier for similar reasons to placing void earlier. Early game, no one has much in the way of power built up, so in games with high magical threat it would be more useful early to limit potential deaths through that portion of the game. It is still workable where you have it. I have had plenty of builds with it later myself.
3. Attack speed is fun on Bellona, but kind of off meta for her. That is perfectly fine in arena but with something like The Executioner you might see better results with that in a build with more attack speed built up before you get to that last item. you could mix it up by putting another item with physical power that could benefit you there rather than executioner there. I'll have some specific examples later.
Since you have been trying some different things out, I was looking at maybe a couple of specific suggestions for you. Frostbound Hammer as I talked about before is very situational. It will always give you that health and a bit of a power bump, but a lot of matches the passive will be wasted. looking at your preferred build after input about the crusher a couple of specific things might help you. A few other items for you to spefically consider with how you run your build would be Masamune Stone Cutting Sword blackthorn's hammer. Changing the order a bit of your regular build items could help a bit too. Pestilence would be helpful situationally as well.(I have been editing this post quite a bit because it was kind of mish mash and discussed that further down)
examples:
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Runic Shield Stone Cutting Sword Masamune The Crusher
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Blackthorn Hammer Masamune Frostbound Hammer The Crusher
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Pestilence Masamune Frostbound Hammer The Crusher
If you wanted to keep the executioner for what it supplies it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to feed your attack speed early with other items. a couple of suggestions for that would be to still put Void Shield at the 2 spot. If there is significant magic threat you could put Runic Shield at the 3 and then go Asi Qin's Sais The Executioner. If there is a healing counter needed you could put Toxic Blade(pen, attack speed, bit of health and reduces healing) in place of the asi. If you needed more defense you could even go gauntlet of thebes at the 3 or 4 depending on other team threats and still run qin's and executioner 5 and 6. You could also work in Pestilence(still get a chunk of health like frostbound, really good magic defense and reduced healing. you could replace frostbound in your standard build with this as needed) at the 3 spot and still have plenty of attack speed.
examples
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Runic Shield Asi Qin's Sais The Executioner
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Toxic Blade Gauntlet of Thebes Qin's Sais The Executioner
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Pestilence Asi Qin's Sais The Executioner
Reinforced Greaves Void Shield Pestilence Runic Shield Qin's Sais The Executioner
Since you have had success with what looks like probably a pretty aggressive style of play, I would cautiously encourage you to try out Ninja Tabi with those builds to see how they run. It would be safe to run with the protections/health that the greaves offer but by getting the extra health early from void and a health item at the 3 some matches it could work pretty well for you trying out tabi with Attack Speed setups.
A lot of times I do decent enough and hold my own, but I group with some of the people on here from time to time and there is a noticeable jump in competition going from the level I am at around 80 something to around 125 or so where a lot of them are. I have gotten blown up pretty good playing with them as well. I have rarely had great matches with them. Who knows, what you are doing you may continue to be able to have the success you are with it. If that happens that's cool too, but like you were saying there is always something that can be better.
Yeah, I figured you could have some success with Ninja Tabi with your playstyle. I might work on that more later myself with how i have been building after i get more testing done with reinforced. Yeah, I will run a defensive item second sometimes before i run blackthorn or another offensive options at the 3, especially if i run say like a Toxic Blade at the 3. I will normally alternate between health/offensive and defensive items that provide power and/or health so basically it would look one of two ways
Just remember that when counter building that 3 should be that flex spot, so that whatever is there should really be where you would put something like a Pestilence or a Toxic Blade. make sure that no one else builds pestilence when you build it and to pay attention to the builds through the match if someone does because 2 of them do not stack. If someone else builds it you could sell and go Toxic Blade or if the healing threat is still big late game and no one else gets toxic you could put it at the end of your build to go with the pestilence from earlier to stack your anti-heal. Also, the sense I have gotten on Titan's Bane is that it isn't all that great of a choice on Bellona. I don't remember anyone coming right out and saying why, but I believe that possibly it's due that it doesn't really go with her kit as well as some of your other pen options like The Crusher The Executioner Stone Cutting Sword
boots/health-offense/defense/offense/defense/offense
boots/defense/health-offense/defense/offense/defense
Since i am not building typical tanky right now, That is how i get my survivability on her building this way. I will have to give frostbound some more work in place of blackthorn's when i use it at that spot, it may be that i just need more practice being that aggressive again(let me tell you i am still pretty aggressive in spots but was way more when i first started). It also may just be i've gotten to the point level wise/competition where I get focused for going that way early and with blackthorn's now i get the mana i need to escape if they try to focus me with not enough defense early. WHich is also another reason I have been sticking with reinfroced greaves currently even though i love Ninja Tabi.
It is not a problem. This site has been great to me from the very beginning. I have gotten tons of great information, and even though I play my own way a lot of times, I have still been able to use a lot of that information in my builds. Feel free to bounce anything you might have off of me for input. I figure with all of the help i have gotten the least i can do is pay it forward if i can.
Thanks for the clarification Gulf. the more you know(nbc logo magically appears above my head)
yeah, and those are personal reasons i haven't really used it myself.
Time for you to focus on a different god. I choose Erlang Shen for you.
Time for you to focus on a different god. I choose Erlang Shen for you.
lol. haha. :p you know what i meant smart***. lol
and I meant for not using Titan's, since that is what was being discussed as not really a good item for her....also Erlang Shen will have to wait in line I have like 6 other warrior/guardian types that I haven't even tried out yet. Especially since I am currently working on Fafnir already.
As for Titan's Bane, it's mainly a tank killer because the percentage pen is practically worthless on a god who only has 98 protections; the same goes for Obsidian Shard for magical gods, but there it's 48 protections. Since SCS already provides physical protection reduction and most teams don't have more than one tank, you're better off with other items. Besides, your job as a warrior isn't to delete tanks, it's to be a nuisance by diving the back line so your damage dealers can kill 'em.
Will do.
As for Titan's Bane, it's mainly a tank killer because the percentage pen is practically worthless on a god who only has 98 protections; the same goes for Obsidian Shard for magical gods, but there it's 48 protections. Since SCS already provides physical protection reduction and most teams don't have more than one tank, you're better off with other items. Besides, your job as a warrior isn't to delete tanks, it's to be a nuisance by diving the back line so your damage dealers can kill 'em.
Yeah, I normally don't go after the other tanks specifically unless they are squishy or they are doing a good job of killing my team. It gets annoying because a lot of my teams, the members will be attacking the tanks and doing jack when there are nice squishies to annihilate just a little further over.
Build 1 (Generic hybrid): Berserker's Shield, Ninja Tabi, Frostbound Hammer/ Blackthorn Hammer, Void Shield, Shogun's Kusari/ Genji's Guard/ Ancile, Mantle of Discord/ Spirit Robe.
Build 2 (Heavy Physical): Berserker's Shield, Ninja Tabi, Void Shield, Stone Cutting Sword, Hide of the Urchin, Spirit Robe.
Build 3 (Heavy magical): Berserker's Shield, Ninja Tabi, Runic Shield, Frostbound Hammer, Spirit Robe, Shogun's Kusari.
Lategame sell Berserker's Shield for Hastened Katana.
As for the start I would go Warrior's Blessing, Round Shield.
Extra:
For damaging AA build: Warrior Tabi, The Crusher, Stone Cutting Sword, Hastened Katana, Qin's Sais, The Executioner/ Atalanta's Bow/ Magi's Cloak/ Mantle of Discord.
For a damaging hybrid build: Warrior Tabi/ Talaria Boots, The Crusher, Stone Cutting Sword/ Masamune, Void Shield, Mantle of Discord, Frostbound Hammer/ Masamune.
For these 2 builds just start Combat Boots, or Attacker's Blessing and Boots.