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Let's Make Patch Notes - Hunters/ADCs

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Forum » General Discussion » Let's Make Patch Notes - Hunters/ADCs 124 posts - page 5 of 13

Poll Question:


How to Change Cupid?
Drastically Buff his Late Game and Nerf his Early Game to Make Him more like Other ADCs
Slightly Nerf his Early Game and Slightly Buff his Late Game to Preserve his Unique Traits
How Dare You Touch My Baby!
VOTE
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » January 30, 2014 12:55am | Report
I think that's all the issues with Xbal for the moment. We met our goals for Cupid and Artemis, I think, which means Apollo, Anhur, Ah Muzen Cab, and Neith are the only ones left.

I think Ah Muzen Cab should be knocked off the to-do list. I don't think anyone has any problems with him.

Which god shall we do next?
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Ghraf » January 30, 2014 1:56am | Report
Subzero008 wrote:

Edited, changed it to specify global sight of gods.

I'm worried about the CC immunity being a bit overpowered. Artemis has a 3 second CC immunity, but her Boar is her escape right now and Xbal already has CC immunity in his dash.

As for the target debuffs, well, its already bad enough with the 1.5 second stun. I don't think they're needed.


That's the penalty of it. You get punished for not avoiding it, while you have the option to completely avoid it if you want. It will actually make his ult threatening and something people will want to worry about and avoid, giving Xbalanque the presence he deserves. As of now, he has very little presence.

This will also force people to possibly want to buy beads or something else to counter it. Which effectively "fixes" the ult, since it can be hard countered without any items or skills.

How would you feel if Neith's ult could be completely countered by simply standing still? Or Artemis's? Or Anhur's? Anyone's, for that matter. This is the inherent problem with the ult, it's like Artemis's traps, it can be made useless (beyond an admittedly lackluster steroid) simply by not doing anything.
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Ghraf


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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Ghraf » January 30, 2014 2:01am | Report
Subzero008 wrote:

I think that's all the issues with Xbal for the moment. We met our goals for Cupid and Artemis, I think, which means Apollo, Anhur, Ah Muzen Cab, and Neith are the only ones left.

I think Ah Muzen Cab should be knocked off the to-do list. I don't think anyone has any problems with him.

Which god shall we do next?


Apollo just needs some cooldown tweaking to make him less "spammy".

Anhur needs tweaking to make him less "LOL GG I ULT YOU AND JUMP AWAY". Cooldown tweaking, mostly, possibly CC immunity reduction.

Ah Muzen Cab seems pretty balanced right now, but at the same time he lacks presence in some ways.

Neith is balanced. Only easy to play, so she seems a little imbalanced. If she had anything tweaked, it would probably need to be the health return on Unravel, to reduce her sustain to be more on par with the other ADCs.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » January 30, 2014 2:07am | Report
Ghraf wrote:



That's the penalty of it. You get punished for not avoiding it, while you have the option to completely avoid it if you want. It will actually make his ult threatening and something people will want to worry about and avoid, giving Xbalanque the presence he deserves. As of now, he has very little presence.

This will also force people to possibly want to buy beads or something else to counter it. Which effectively "fixes" the ult, since it can be hard countered without any items or skills.

How would you feel if Neith's ult could be completely countered by simply standing still? Or Artemis's? Or Anhur's? Anyone's, for that matter. This is the inherent problem with the ult, it's like Artemis's traps, it can be made useless (beyond an admittedly lackluster steroid) simply by not doing anything.

That's not what I meant. I meant getting hit by the stun, aka being stupid enough to move, is enough of a punishment for NOT standing still. Adding an additional consequence to being hit by the stun is unnecessary.

Edit: Besides, stacking another effect onto the stun doesn't solve the problem of the ultimate being easy to counter.

Edit Edit: And we already worked on a few solutions, I think. Giving him some kind of CC immunity and more utility with global vision. I think that's enough.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Ghraf » January 30, 2014 2:13am | Report
Subzero008 wrote:


That's not what I meant. I meant getting hit by the stun, aka being stupid enough to move, is enough of a punishment for NOT standing still. Adding an additional consequence to being hit by the stun is unnecessary.

Edit: Besides, stacking another effect onto the stun doesn't solve the problem of the ultimate being easy to counter.

Edit Edit: And we already worked on a few solutions, I think. Giving him some kind of CC immunity and more utility with global vision. I think that's enough.


Yeah, I prefer the true sight on gods and CC immunity. He really needs CC immunity.

However, my preferred on-stun effect would be for any god being stunned to get "marked" so that Xbalanque alone has lasting true sight on them for a short duration. Not necessarily any debuffs or extra buffs, just maintaining the true sight that lasts through the darkness for a little longer for further utility.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » January 30, 2014 2:17am | Report
Ghraf wrote:



Yeah, I prefer the true sight on gods and CC immunity. He really needs CC immunity.

Actually, I have an idea that could replace the CC immunity, which feels a bit cheesy to me considering he already has CC immunity in an ability.

Give him stealth.

It fits with the hunter theme, fits with the darkness theme, and is definitely a big buff.

Basically, give him complete stealth for three seconds, broken for 0.5 seconds if attacking. That should solve the problem of his FX showing outside the radius of the darkness, and provides an unique utility.

Edit: And the most important change: His Rising Jaguar does not break stealth. DUN DUN DUNNNN!!!
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Ghraf » January 30, 2014 3:03am | Report
Subzero008 wrote:


Actually, I have an idea that could replace the CC immunity, which feels a bit cheesy to me considering he already has CC immunity in an ability.

Give him stealth.

It fits with the hunter theme, fits with the darkness theme, and is definitely a big buff.

Basically, give him complete stealth for three seconds, broken for 0.5 seconds if attacking. That should solve the problem of his FX showing outside the radius of the darkness, and provides an unique utility.

Edit: And the most important change: His Rising Jaguar does not break stealth. DUN DUN DUNNNN!!!


Not really, Anhur has CC immunity on two skills. Technically Geb does, with his shield and roll. There are probably quite a few other gods that do too, but I can't really think of any off the top of my head at the moment.

Stealth is basically useless for him since it directly contradicts the self-buff on his ultimate. He gets stealth, yet he has increased movement speed and attack range, but loses the stealth as soon as he uses an attack. No.

Rising Jaguar falls off hard late game, there's no point in using it when you could just use a basic attack and do probably twice to three times as much damage and not have to waste a single point of mana or your escape ability. And making him stealth doesn't solve the CC problem, even if he can use Rising Jaguar, because the CC immunity doesn't kick in until you're in the air (it's a lot harder to pull off than it sounds), plus you could still be CCed at any point while in stealth to begin with.

It's also every god's FX. It's just broken.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by HiFromBuddha » January 30, 2014 3:42am | Report
The only problem with Xbalanque's ult is the lack of clarity as to how to counter it. Hardly anyone will think that you can stand still for a split second to avoid a 1.5s stun. If we added anymore power to the proc of the stun (which I don't think is the path we are currently taking, which is good), then we'll absolutely have to add some kind of clarity as to how to counter it.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » January 30, 2014 3:48am | Report
Ghraf wrote:

Not really, Anhur has CC immunity on two skills. Technically Geb does, with his shield and roll. There are probably quite a few other gods that do too, but I can't really think of any off the top of my head at the moment.

Stealth is basically useless for him since it directly contradicts the self-buff on his ultimate. He gets stealth, yet he has increased movement speed and attack range, but loses the stealth as soon as he uses an attack. No.

Rising Jaguar falls off hard late game, there's no point in using it when you could just use a basic attack and do probably twice to three times as much damage and not have to waste a single point of mana or your escape ability. And making him stealth doesn't solve the CC problem, even if he can use Rising Jaguar, because the CC immunity doesn't kick in until you're in the air (it's a lot harder to pull off than it sounds), plus you could still be CCed at any point while in stealth to begin with.

It's also every god's FX. It's just broken.

Are you sure Anhur is CC immune during his leap? I think it's probably just the invincibility frames that every leap has.

No one said the buff had to be offensive, and I think you are severely underestimating the impact of stealth. (Also, a bit of clarification: I meant for Rising Jaguar to trigger stealth. Aka you become invisible while using it, no exceptions.)

Firstly, you will become impossible to initiate on. Before a fight starts, you aren't attacking. In other words, you will always attack first, instead of the enemy. You can get right in their face and they will have no idea where you are. Late game, where you can kill someone in three basic attacks, this is huge.

Secondly, Darkest of Nights has a weakness: Area attacks. He Bo could just ult in your general direction and you'll be hit because He Bo's ult is broken. Not anymore, you'll have the opportunity to kill him in three basics first.

Thirdly, Xbal can easily retrigger stealth by not attacking, instantly negating effects like Brutalize or Ragnarok or Drain Life.

But the above are more quality-of-life effects. The biggest effect is Rising Jaguar.

I need to make a comparison to League of Legends: Vayne. When buffed by her ultimate, she can Tumble to instantly become invisible. This is especially potent because she temporarily becomes immune to any targeted ability, like autoattacks, and her tumble is really annoying since you have no idea where she went.

Rising Jaguar does fall off late game, and this is also an effort to make it useful again. Rather than increasing damage, I made it do more stuff.

Let's say you are suddenly ambushed by the entire enemy team. Literally, the entire team. A quick ult and Rising Jaguar will make your escape 100% of the time because Rising Jaguar's distance covered is huge. The combination of moving very quickly, CC immunity, and stealth make you impossible to catch.

Maybe you are dueling another ADC and both of you are at low health. You instantly get behind them, get in some free damage, and they have NO IDEA where you are, allowing you to get in a free basic or two and win the fight.

Remember when I said that Darkest of Nights makes enemies with skillshots screwed over? With stealth, they cannot hit with skillshots at all unless they sold their soul or something.

And most of all, it's free damage. Unavoidable, unforeseeable damage. Don't underestimate that.

Edit: It makes him do a pretty good job of out-Loki-ing a Loki. Get to the back lines, instagib someone with a few autoattacks, Rising Jaguar away.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Subzero008 » January 30, 2014 4:00am | Report
HiFromBuddha wrote:

The only problem with Xbalanque's ult is the lack of clarity as to how to counter it. Hardly anyone will think that you can stand still for a split second to avoid a 1.5s stun. If we added anymore power to the proc of the stun (which I don't think is the path we are currently taking, which is good), then we'll absolutely have to add some kind of clarity as to how to counter it.

Not sure if this helps, but I changed the tooltip on this site.
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