Let's Make Patch Notes - Hunters/ADCs :: Page 6

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wrote:

The only problem with Xbalanque's ult is the lack of clarity as to how to counter it. Hardly anyone will think that you can stand still for a split second to avoid a 1.5s stun. If we added anymore power to the proc of the stun (which I don't think is the path we are currently taking, which is good), then we'll absolutely have to add some kind of clarity as to how to counter it.

Except everyone that's played against knows that if you stop for a split second you won't get stunned. Which is roughly 99% of the Smite community.

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wrote:

Are you sure Anhur is CC immune during his leap? I think it's probably just the invincibility frames that every leap has.

No one said the buff had to be offensive, and I think you are severely underestimating the impact of stealth. (Also, a bit of clarification: I meant for to trigger stealth. Aka you become invisible while using it, no exceptions.)

Firstly, you will become impossible to initiate on. Before a fight starts, you aren't attacking. In other words, you will always attack first, instead of the enemy. You can get right in their face and they will have no idea where you are. Late game, where you can kill someone in three basic attacks, this is huge.

Secondly, has a weakness: Area attacks. could just ult in your general direction and you'll be hit because He Bo's ult is broken. Not anymore, you'll have the opportunity to kill him in three basics first.

Thirdly, Xbal can easily retrigger stealth by not attacking, instantly negating effects like or or .

But the above are more quality-of-life effects. The biggest effect is Rising Jaguar.

I need to make a comparison to League of Legends: Vayne. When buffed by her ultimate, she can Tumble to instantly become invisible. This is especially potent because she temporarily becomes immune to any targeted ability, like autoattacks, and her tumble is really annoying since you have no idea where she went.

Rising Jaguar does fall off late game, and this is also an effort to make it useful again. Rather than increasing damage, I made it do more stuff.

Let's say you are suddenly ambushed by the entire enemy team. Literally, the entire team. A quick ult and will make your escape 100% of the time because 's distance covered is huge. The combination of moving very quickly, CC immunity, and stealth make you impossible to catch.

Maybe you are dueling another ADC and both of you are at low health. You instantly get behind them, get in some free damage, and they have NO IDEA where you are, allowing you to get in a free basic or two and win the fight.

Remember when I said that makes enemies with skillshots screwed over? With stealth, they cannot hit with skillshots at all unless they sold their soul or something.

And most of all, it's free damage. Unavoidable, unforeseeable damage. Don't underestimate that.

Edit: It makes him do a pretty good job of out-Loki-ing a Loki. Get to the back lines, instagib someone with a few autoattacks, away.

The problem is that it wouldn't last longer than the duration of his ult. So, you only have a couple seconds to even do anything in stealth and the second you do do something, you'll be revealed.

If you try to go Rambo in the back of the enemy team, you'll hit your ult, get setup, and suddenly your ult is over and you're completely ****ed because you're standing in the middle of the enemy team with your pants down. It is not hard to CC Xbalanque before he can away, or even worse, cripple, which it seems like every god has.

You can already use his ult and to escape anyways, he doesn't need stealth for that combo to work right.

If you're dueling another ADC with and you're losing then you probably need to rethink your build, or you got CCed.

Xbal is also pretty squishy, so good luck getting in someone's face who even has a moderate amount of CC or burst damage without getting wrecked.

It's basically the same situation as his ult is now.

If you mean for him to be permanently stealthed for the duration of his ult, then it's different. That's pretty overpowered. If he's revealed when he attacks, however, it's exactly the same as it was before, minus being able to take advantage of the long range basic attacks, since you're suggesting using stealth to get really close, which ADCs shouldn't be doing.

Oh, and you can still hit people in stealth in Smite, unlike LoL or Dota. So, area attacks can still kill you just as easily.

And I wasn't aware stealth was CC immunity in this game. I've seen Loki stunned in stealth before.

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His grants CC immunity, and with the proposed change to , it grants stealth. And with the basic attack range, it's rare you'll be hit by any CC abilities, anyway.

There are a few gods who beat Xbal in DPS. It could be any hunter during the laning phase, or Anhur, Artemis, and maybe Apollo with his passive late game. Also, you might sometimes start a fight with low health, or some other situation that is tactically disadvantageous.

And one of the things I meant the stealth to do is to make you truly invisible while outside the radius of darkness. That's part of the quality-of-life I wan mentioning.

And while you can hit people while stealthed, there is a difference between "see general direction of enemy and spam skillshots" versus "they have no clue where you are and spam skillshots." Obviously, gods with large conical attacks are an exception.

Also, "close" is relatively speaking. For melee gods, close means within 20-15 feet. With a ranged hunter, you can stand comfortably near enough to easily hit with autos while being out of range of cc abilities like , , , etc.

That means my point about repositioning with an invisible is still sound. You know how when you fight Loki, and he suddenly goes into stealth, before backstabbing you? It's annoying because it's difficult to counter for most gods. It's like that, only you get some free damage in and you lack the weakness of being forced into melee range.

tl;dr: Loki is living proof that starting a fight with the first blow can be lethal, even if you don't one-shot the enemy, and that restarting a fight with a free hit is similarly lethal.

I consider that to be a worthy buff.

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I do have another solution that I think would be a good compromise. in shares the extended range, and the branching attacks deal 60% damage (instead of 30%) and apply on-hit effects, like lifesteal, but not crits, since that is derived from the main attack. We could throw in the invisible , which is the main thing I care about.

Edit: Xbal with Golden Bow and the new Darkest of Nights would be HILARIOUS in Arena.

Editedit: Actually, it could be balanced by having it have the same effect as and , where it can't hit more than once with one basic. Meh.

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This discussion has been open for one day? Two days? And I think we still did more progress than HiRez did in two weeks. NJ, everyone who contributed to the discussion.

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Actually, doesn't proc when baka vomits. It used to, but they fixed it cause it proced all of the hits, so you could munch on one enemy god and 6 minions around him and you'll one shot them.

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wrote:

Actually, doesn't proc when baka vomits. It used to, but they fixed it cause it proced all of the hits, so you could munch on one enemy god and 6 minions around him and you'll one shot them.

That's what I meant. That applied to Merc too, I think two patches ago.

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Still sticking with only granting true sight on all enemy gods and CC immunity for the duration.

Stealth is just too gimmicky. He needs solid effects that fit his playstyle and stealth doesn't synergize with an ADC without shoehorning it in, due to the simple fact that he's a squishy, ranged god and the stealth only lasts for the duration of the ultimate. His range is his defense. He doesn't need stealth. It's getting to the point where it's going to come down to hypothetical situations, and we all know what that results in.

isn't the be-all, end-all escape skill either. You're failing to see how incredibly easy it is to counter it. ? No escape. ? No escape. ? No escape. ? No escape. Transgressors Fate? No escape. ? No escape. I could go on, but the list is REALLY LONG. Not to mention, literally everything cancels it, if not disable it, if it's even half a CC.

I also think you fail to see just how weak the procs on are. And, if you didn't notice/didn't read, it does not proc on-hit effects, so wouldn't work.

I don't know how you're comparing to . 's ENTIRE kit is devoted to his stealth burst damage. Not even remotely the same god. gets bonus damage from various sources as well as having fairly spammable stealth. would have stealth every once in a while when he uses his ult. You'd have to retool his entire kit to even begin for it to make sense.

Not that I wouldn't like for to have stealth capability of some sort, it just isn't what he needs.

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Oh, i thought you meant something else.

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wrote:

Still sticking with only granting true sight on all enemy gods and CC immunity for the duration.

That's fine. Making a note: CC immune + true god sight. I'll put it on the list.

wrote:

Stealth is just too gimmicky. He needs solid effects that fit his playstyle and stealth doesn't synergize with an ADC without shoehorning it in, due to the simple fact that he's a squishy, ranged god and the stealth only lasts for the duration of the ultimate. His range is his defense. He doesn't need stealth. It's getting to the point where it's going to come down to hypothetical situations, and we all know what that results in.

Point taken.

wrote:

isn't the be-all, end-all escape skill either. You're failing to see how incredibly easy it is to counter it. ? No escape. ? No escape. ? No escape. ? No escape. Transgressors Fate? No escape. ? No escape. I could go on, but the list is REALLY LONG. Not to mention, literally everything cancels it, if not disable it, if it's even half a CC.

Eh...those are rather specific. Those are cripples, firstly, and they'd counter anyone with an escape by just as much, and Neith's doesn't cripple, so he can still use it.

I know that escapes aren't the ultimate answer to everything, but trust me: an invisible flexible dash is an enormous boon.

Remember, we don't have to come up with a single solution by ourselves. We could let the community decide with a vote. Later, of course, once we're done with the hunters.

wrote:

I also think you fail to see just how weak the procs on are. And, if you didn't notice/didn't read, it does not proc on-hit effects, so wouldn't work.

I don't know how you're comparing to . 's ENTIRE kit is devoted to his stealth burst damage. Not even remotely the same god. gets bonus damage from various sources as well as having fairly spammable stealth. would have stealth every once in a while when he uses his ult. You'd have to retool his entire kit to even begin for it to make sense.

Not that I wouldn't like for to have stealth capability of some sort, it just isn't what he needs.

Yeah, I understand that now.

But, uh, I said specifically on my post, that the enhanced would apply on=hit effects, like lifesteal or 's passive. And I think you are somewhat underestimating the area damage of , that area damage is what makes him an instant ban in Arena league, right along Zeus. (Seriously, I can put him on the same tier as Zeus.

I'll quote myself.

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