Draft of a Letter to HiRezKelly Regarding ADCs and Snowballing, Up for Editing :: Page 4

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My name is not You. I don't think anyone's name is You.

Look...if you admit that ADC is not your greatest role, then why the hell are you trying to offer insight about it? Mid lane is not my forte and I have little experience with it, so I don't go around trying to make mid guides, nor do I make comments about mid.

Anyway, to answer your question as to why not: Maybe because there already is a jungling role? Because it forces a certain kind of support and ADC?

There's been a trend, haven't you noticed? Self-sufficient Guardians and self-sufficient ADCs. , , , all gods who are either very fast, have good waveclear, and/or have sustain in-lane. , with his insane mobility, is now a very common support pick*. I'd like a little more variety in the roles. I want to be able to pick certain gods and not be reported by four other people.

And also, not sure if you read Arka's blog post, but yes, apparently HiRez thinks there is a problem.

*Albeit he's also picked for other reasons, like having the mother of all pokes and having some sustain.

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Wow You seem pretty offended by my post Subzero. I have no idea why. I still don't see the problem with support/tank roaming. Yes there is a jungler role already so what...? That's not an argument. Of course I have noticed the trend, still I can't see any problems. I like current META and the way support/tank needs to roam and so on.

Well I don't main ADC (still I play this role pretty often) but I consider jungle as my main role and I've never noticed any serious problems when ganking duo lane.

As I said it earlier, You don't like current META and I totally respect that. But it doesn't mean it is wrong as it is now.

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Stupid discussion is stupid

I can agree with the fact that Hunters are the strongest class/role in the game (mainlytmo CC and escapes, and ofc because they are carries). But it is not like every game is decided on whether or not the adc gets fed. If that was the chase I would second a notion like this. That is not how it is though you can just as easy win with a fed jungle, mid or solo (support not so much, unless you play Wukong).

It is true that mobility is a very important aspect in the game atm. But was there ever a time where it was not important?

When Bacchus came out, Ymir pretty much got trashed and the only time you saw him played was if Sobek got banned. Thankfully he is back now though with Blink.

Same thing when Neith came out, Cupid who was NEVER played like ever suddenly got picked a lot due to his sustain to deal with Neith.

I do not understand how making roaming less viable for supports is giving more variety to the role. Your job would go back to giving the adc kills and protect him, rotate buffs every 4 min, ward, gank mid if your lane is empty and follow the enemy support.

Ymir and Ares would again be trashed, because without the extra gold from mid camps, Gp5 from midas and assists from roaming getting Blink is out of the question due to not having the income to keep vision at a respectable lvl. Sobek, Bacchus and maybe even Hades and Aphrodite would be picked more though so it's not all bad ofc.

And no one would/should ever report you (at least doing so would not lead to much action from Hi Rez) for going Ymir/Odin/Bacchus/Ares support as long as you actually do your job.

The thing I would like to see is more "support" supports and extending the landing phase would help with that, but gods like Sun Wukong, Guan Yu, Geb etc. would still be better in a lane than Aphrodite.

I have not read the blog, do you have a link?

And on a side note, just because a role isn't someone's best role it does not mean that they can not have any insight on that role.

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Another point I wish to highlight is why or even and most tanks need midas boots, hands of god and watcher's gift, etc. This is a strong meta and new players who don't know this and stick with mark of vanguard gonna lose more often than not. As best minion said again came back strong with the introduction of blink. Its unhealthy overall, if an item makes so much influence on the game. Items must act like buffs and not like oxygen if you don't have a particular item you are doomed. I think this is where god balancing comes in.

My only concern for tanks is too much specific item dependence specially at early stage of a game. They have issues with earning Xp and gold mainly because they cant clear minions with basic attacks. And I can quote this that if a tank trolls around the map early game to gank lanes he's gonna lag bigtime late game on player level. Take the case of as a support, to me he's more a mage and has brilliant wave clearance. I think every god must have the ability to defend a lane alone to some extent and this can only happen by balancing them out, may be by tweaking their basic attack potency or mana sustain or something else.

EDIT: I think if we can have strong tanks and supports (by strong I mean if gods can level up fast at par with ADCs) , the whole issue of ADC snowballing can also be addressed.

EDIT: A 18 level bacchus can counter a 18 level AMC solo one on one, but a 14 level bacchus can't counter a 18 level AMC even in a group fight. Its usually game over if a tank falls back on levels.

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Game Over...? Tank always falls behind especially on high level games and the game is definetly over then. And why should Bacchus counter AMC 1v1...? It's not his job man... And every tank is able to hold their lane for a while if needed. They got HOG and Sobek for example have a pretty nice waveclear with his 3 and 2.

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wrote:

My only concern for tanks is too much specific item dependence specially at early stage of a game.

wrote:

A 18 level bacchus can counter a 18 level AMC solo one on one, but a 14 level bacchus can't counter a 18 level AMC even in a group fight. Its usually game over if a tank falls back on levels.

A lvl 14 Bacchus with midas and watchers would be able to handle it, but a under leveled and under farmed Bacchus would not have a fun time. And you saw a lot of that if the support roamed without getting anything out of it before watchers and midas.

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Hey, I really like that both shin and bestminion replied to my post..VGG!

I have found a holy grail of balance, may be the purists can comment and improve it further:

Like Einstein gave E=mc^2,

m no Einstein but a physicist least! for sure

- Give bonus experience to all gods for the damage mitigated by them (not damage taken, only mitigated)

scaling can change but more like this:

- 0-5 level, bonus XP(not gold) per 2000 damage mitigated(max.5 stacks)
- 5-10 level, bonus XP(not gold) per 3000 damage mitigated(max.5 stacks)
- 10-15 level bonus XP(not gold) per 4000 damage mitigated(max.5 stacks)
- 15-20 level, bonus XP(not gold) per 5000 damage mitigated(max.5 stacks)
After applying an improved version of this sentiment, there won't be any problem related to snowballing, tank/bruiser lane roles and overall balance of the game and various viabilities of gods like vamana, etc.

The LAW behind whole idea is , I shall be benefited in gaining experience by mitigating damage.

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wrote:

Taking Bacchus and AMC is just to explain things as example, the major sentiment for me is that no god should be made too much dependent on 1 or 2 particular items and especially actives. If they don't take those they r doomed, this must not happen. Sobek using 3 and 2 early game to loose most of his mana and not even taking minions down by half their health, does it make sense.

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Motto: Never let the team down..find a way to win..
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My Guide on Vulcan
A god idea...

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If Sobek needs to hold his lane alone early game then something's veeery wrong...

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wrote:

Yeah that is kind of true, but it is not as bad as for jungle though :P

A support can for example start Watchers and build into pen/cdr boots or midas, you can also just skip Watchers and build midas rank 2 straight off the bat (and some pots + wards and HOG or HOG and Eye/Blink).

A lvl 14 Bacchus with midas and watchers would be able to handle it, but a under leveled and under farmed Bacchus would not have a fun time. And you saw a lot of that if the support roamed without getting anything out of it before watchers and midas.

A jungler is meant to jungle and he is ought to take jungle items if he wants to. In 90% cases, two or more than two people declare themselves as junglers in the game lobby itself, too ridiculous but tats true.

Midas and watchers are forced items that were created to fill in the imbalance amongst gods. I think its much better to balance gods first then worry about items like which items suits which god.

I have been a tank in nearly 300 conquests and if I fall behind in level late game without playing bad, its really a big let down.

Fun and Heart
IGN: arka222
Clan: ARKA GANG
Motto: Never let the team down..find a way to win..
Country: India
My Guide on Vulcan
A god idea...

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Draft of a Letter to HiRezKelly Regarding ADCs and Snowballing, Up for Editing

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