The Giant Slayer. :: Page 2

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wrote:

This makes some sense why the Odin meme fails. Has to sacrifice a lot of item slots to build up into same attack-speed and crit chances etc as hunter/assassins.

Not really, it's just that attack speed and crit doesen't have synergy with Odin's kit. He isn't a good for consistent auto attack dps, and his ability scaling late isn't that high compared to some assassins, and while he does have good base damage on his abilities, base damage falls off lategame a bit. Also full damage Odin, even if built for ability damage can be blown up / locked down very easily.

wrote:

I keep looking for any way to shed some attack speed and crit for protection..

I mean you can, like if someone forced me to go Odin in Jungle, I would probably (pre mid season patch) go a bruiser build. Something like , , , , , , and sell my shoes lategame for .

wrote:

But his damage just drops so severely that he becomes uninteresting to me. (Personal preference)

Then either play him Solo/Support like you should, and NOT jungle. Or just don't play him.

Focus on his team objective / teamfight dps buff with his Gugnir's Might and the stun on it to set up damage for teammates, and the lockdown/utility from his .

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Renowned (143)
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wrote:

Boots should almost always be built 99% of the time. Most cost efficient item in the game and without the full movement speed from boots, you basically suffer a permanent movement slow compared to other gods, and suffer even more from further slows.

Not sure what you mean by this, I can build any warrior with a full damage build, and even if it can give out good dps, that doesen't mean it's good in practice, and certainly not full damage attack speed crit Odin....

Well this is the interesting part to me. Normally I play mages or high movement speed. And normally it feels easy to deal damage and so I can (as long as not countered) do some kind of life steal tanking.

I really wanted the Odin Meme to work. With some modifications to early game build he became pretty break even if I played him safely.

But late game I just felt I couldnt hit anyone so couldn't benefit from wind demon.

I feel like if I could just hit a God he could tank them with the life steal as long as there isn't too much anti-healing.

I just got my butt kicked so much figuring how to make him early-middle game sutsinable that I am too frustrated to be excited.

I had to LEARN solo/warrior first. Never played it.

Changes I learned to make were t2 shield and only go t2 Asi at first to start building early power with T1s. Because his gold is so slow until you can one shot a lane.

After that he plays fast but loses any advantage late game cuz well...what good is Odin late game?

I tried the meta some times and he just couldn't put out the damage. At most he just....is a 6second wall.

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By the way I never played Odin Jungle. He's just kitted with the adc. But I was mostly solo sometimes support.

But I had to learn solo last night...all this time and never played it honestly.

But, once I figured that out this adc Odin meme is pretty OK until late game when everyone starts mobbing up. then he's really trashed as you said....

Locked down or rather, just pops....

I just didnt know if that's my skill level and choices of engagement since actually adcs seem to pull it off.

It might be a viable meme if saving his abilities for escape....eh

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wrote:

I just didnt know if that's my skill level and choices of engagement since actually adcs seem to pull it off.

wrote:

It might be a viable meme if saving his abilities for escape....eh

No. It's not viable. End of.

Like what are you going to do? Save your 3 stun, blink in, stun then try to hit crit autos? That will never work.

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Renowned (143)
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I'll look into your suggestion about being forced to play Odin. He seems fun...I just dont like the idea of having to be full armor with nothing late game as the meta's all seem to require in the most upvoted builds.

At this point it's like solving a rubric cube. I dont expect it to have a solution. Just a problem to try and solve

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wrote:

Well this is the interesting part to me. Normally I play mages or high movement speed.

What do you mean Mages OR High Movement speed? "High Movement Speed" is not a class?

wrote:

And normally it feels easy to deal damage and so I can (as long as not countered) do some kind of life steal tanking.

Uhm.. what? lol.

wrote:

I tried the meta some times and he just couldn't put out the damage. At most he just....is a 6second wall.

Doesen't sound like you're playing correctly.

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Renowned (143)
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So uh. Hi Neon. Interesting concept. I'll provide some general feedback based on what you've discussed.

Firstly, some gods are meant to be built for full damage, and their kits fortify that concept. Others just don't have the kit that supports that type of build. With the Fire Giant, when looking to solo him, you're looking to burst him down as quickly as possible.

Let's consider the general stats and features of the FG.

Fire Giant Stats

So it's got protections, meaning pen/protection reduction will help you increase damage against it. It's got a 50% reduction in lifesteal from attackers, meaning any sustain you build is unlikely to keep you alive indefinitely.

Even though you can avoid the big boulders and the line ability, you're still going to be hit with its basic attacks.

So again, going back to your choice of . Some parts of this choice make sense. Being able to apply that hefty shield fairly often will mitigate a good amount of damage. But technically, that's where it stops. The bulk of his damage potential comes not from basics, but abilities, and that shield from is also used for extra damage when combined with , but that damage potential also relies on the shield being at full health. His isn't nearly damaging enough. In the end, his kit just isn't suited for basic attack damage. And when you try translating this type of build for Odin in Conquest, it's basically no surprise that he's going to get blown up.

And really, what we're talking about needing here is SUSTAINED damage. Burst is great for lower health targets, but for the FG, who has thousands of HP of base health plus damage mitigation from its inherent protections, you need consistent, high basic attack DPS.

(FYI, in comparing Odin's and Baka's basic attacks, Odin gains 1.1% AS per level, while Baka's is 1.6%, so Baka will get somewhat higher AS at level 20 given the same itemization.)

How do you get that? We'll keep this to physical gods for this discussion. Well, most basic attackers (hunters and some assassins) build one of two directions with a main damage source... or crit items. Normally, Baka would be built with high base AS (since he has no AS steroid) and thus also typically goes with rather than crits. But what we should probably do, in maximizing damage against the FG, is focus on some specific things.

We'll need SOME sustain, so even with decreased lifesteal function, we should have at least 1 lifesteal item to help maintain health.
Unless the rest of the stats support its use, we should keep in mind the stats that affect/don't affect the FG. For example, Qin's Sais passive only does enhanced damage against enemy gods, Poisoned Star's passive only debuffs enemy gods, etc. So we're looking for the best base stats, essentially.

From this, I'd say you want a build that gets you close to 2.5 AS, with consistent crits. , Wind Demon, and will make up 1/2 the build.

As for the rest, you'll want , and at least 1 or 2 other AS items. Question, are you concerned with an actual, viable Conquest build too? Because if we're talking Baka, he's typically built with the katana line..., , and are generally very popular/core items for him. If you're not building that (due to looking to build a max DPS direction), then are you considering the fact you'd have to build boots, or no?

Your best items to round out that DPS are probably and . If I calculated correctly, that gets your AS right up to the cap, at 2.47. You get lifesteal (and enhanced lifesteal if needed when you're lower on health that will counteract most of the lifesteal debuff the FG applies), flat pen, and high power to go with it.

Can that build translate to Conquest? While you'll deal very good damage, your utility will be really hurt. And if you're not going with the 3 katanas, you'll need Tabi, so that immediately eliminates that build as it stands, as at the 30 minute mark, you're unlikely to have replaced your boots.

Baka also doesn't usually build lifesteal, as far as I know. You'll rely on his 2 for sustain. (FYI his normal build, I would say, would be Golden, Stone Cutting, Hastened, Qin's, and any of Arondight, Exe, Ichaival)

So while you can look to maximize DPS on him against the FG, I don't think it translates well at all to a functional Conquest build.

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wrote:

You don't have to build full tank, you can go bruiser. E.g. > > (or ) > > > > sell your boots for or lategame. That could be a possible Solo lane build.

Another example, > > > > > > sell your boots for or latemgame. Another possible Solo lane build.

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wrote:

At higher skill level it gets even worse. Generally, the ****tier your opponents, the ****tier the builds you can get away with, the more it comes down to player skill. If I can beat bad players with trash builds, that doesen't make the build good, and it's what half of this site's userbase don't seem to understand.

No. It's not viable. End of.

Like what are you going to do? Save your 3 stun, blink in, stun then try to hit crit autos? That will never work.

Oh I understand it....everytime my game switches from "I'm rocking it" to "complete arse lol. I can definitely tell when I'm playing someone who just knows where to be and when to be there.

I just am not there yet. Maybe someday I'll get closer.

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wrote:

I just am not there yet. Maybe someday I'll get closer.

Using meme builds isn't going to help you get closer though.

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The Giant Slayer.

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