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I start with Combat Boots and Light Blade
Its not necessary to rush Asi but because I find it so useful early when everyone is squishy I find it handy to have earlier than later.
I do NOT rush The Executioner simply because the passive will not be effective early game.
Ninja Tabi or Warrior Tabi, there is no right or wrong, it just depends on whether you want more attack speed or more physical power. Personally, I find Ninja Tabi far more effective since it is more efficient.
Wind Demon] or [[Poisoned Star is similar to above, it depends on which you want and what you feel is more effective.
Whatever you choose, your core build should look like this:
Ninja Tabi
Asi
Deathbringer
Poisoned Star
OR:
Warrior Tabi
Asi
Deathbringer
Wind Demon
Rage is a cost efficient item that gives you a nice passive that can increase your damage output in fights, once you evolve it, depending on the build path you have chosen, can have upwards of permanent 80% Crit Chance.
Crusher is the key item that will melt late game 4-5 item tanks. The passive makes your auto attack deal a DoT which amounts to "Additional 20 physical damage + 15% of physical power". While the build itself does not hold a lot of physical power, you'll notice the damage and the passive work very well together.
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Fail-Not could replace Rage just based on stats alone but Hachi didn't really benefit from cooldown reduc, and it also doesn't benefit if you're the only physical damage on your team.
Deathbringer doesn't have to be a 3rd item, if there is beneficial reason, or just no tank on the other team, I suppose it makes much more sense to have it 2nd. Only reason it comes third is just because of the lack of crowd control from Hachi, or the sometimes inconsistent stun potential, having the movement speed buff from Wind Demon is just that little bit more effective, but I can see what Deathbringer brings to the table having it sooner than later.
Thanks for the feedback, can look into trying some different builds around this. :)
EDIT: after actually reading the skill properly. I see why The Crusher is useless on Hachi, as I forgot to see where it says "Bonus Damage on Abilities" which well... yeah. So I screwed that up xD
Erm, any hunter benefits well from Fail-Not's stats, and magical gods on your team can crit from Fail-Not's passive.
Also if you're going to build Rage then you should get it early/mid game so you can actually build the stacks, not late game... Also if you go Rage + Deathbringer combo it's enough crit that you don't really need a third crit item.
I mean it's built 2nd in most crit builds. Not as a first or third crit item.
Also, you originally said that The Crusher would be useful on him against tanks, but no item in your listed build (including Crusher) has enough penetration to actually hurt tanks. The best item for that on a hunter is The Executioner.
Since you don't seem to understand how pen/protections in this game work, please read this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ow_ls0iB2wi2jbgU1FZv7RWWbqRDBGpt/view
Deathbringer is almost always the 2nd crit item, because it provides a much higher DPS boost than any other critical strike item in the same spot, and it's worth the extra cost. The only time that wasn't the case was maybe a year ago, when the Poisoned Star, The Executioner, Wind Demon, Deathbringer sequence was popular. But of course, PS has gotten nerfs since that point and is no longer as appealing as a first crit item.
Also, Rage is ideal in 2 item crit builds, not triple crit, so if you're building it the only other crit item you should be building is Deathbringer.
Oh and The Crusher does nothing against tanks on it's own, if you want to deal actual relevant damage to tanks you need The Executioner.
But yeah, Deathbringer comes as 2nd crit item, and not as early as 3rd item.
But yeah, Deathbringer comes as 2nd crit item, and not as early as 3rd item.
While I am thinking about it, I was wanting to see input on my build as an arena build. I have been using this build pretty frequently and more often than not it is working pretty well for me on Chaac.
Yeah, I struggled over blackthorn or regrowth second because as Bran talks about I really do like the overall utility of Blackthorn's with the nice powerspike early, the health and also the cdr and mana regen utility vs regrowth for the extra survivability plus it does regen mana as well. In the process of getting Chaac down I settled on a few variations of the build from the match Bran linked depending on team comp and they just seemed to really work. Now that I am more competent with him I probably do need to just graduate him to blackthorn second.
Hide of the Nemean Lion is not an item I have used much but since I picked up herc this week and have been playing him I have really loved it situationally on him and was thinking that would probably be a really good item for Chaac as well.
With pen, I have been looking at fitting it in and do when I can, but it seems like, for whatever reason, i'm usually doing pretty well on damage even without any pen. depending on team comp I do usually double up on anti heal unless I feel more survivability is necessary. so i'd usually do a pest/cont and beat stick combo when I can, getting beat stick last.
some thoughts on possible builds
heavy cc Warrior Tabi Blackthorn Hammer Spirit Robe shield of regrowth Oni Hunter's Garb Shifter's Shield
heavy aa/physical Warrior Tabi Blackthorn Hammer Hide of the Nemean Lion shield of regrowth Bulwark of Hope Pridwen I know you didn't mention bulwark but I figured that if you have a lot of aa on you the extra shield would be helpful.
heavy magic and/or healing Warrior Tabi Blackthorn Hammer Pestilence or Genji's Guard Void Shield Oni Hunter's Garb Pridwen if heavier healing counter needed could put Pridwen at 5 and brawler's at the 6.
heavy physical/healing Warrior Tabi Blackthorn Hammer Contagion shield of regrowth Oni Hunter's Garb Pridwen as in other example if heavier healing Pridwen at 5 and brawler's at 6.
One big thing about Blackthorn is that it's significantly more helpful early game. The low cost (getting a cost nerf in the next patch) is great early, the health boost, power, and sustain function, all make it something that's designed for early use.
And while Gauntlet is always a strong defensive item, looking at the enemy team and who their main threats are, you're facing 2-3 gods with some basic attack function (Cern, Hou, Ravana). Instead of Gauntlet (and Regrowth), you might opt for some of the things Gulf was talking about...Nemean Lion is good reflect damage against those basic attackers, or you could consider Midgardian, which is very synergistic with your Rain effect. On the magical side, since you expect to be in the middle of most teamfights, Oni Hunter's Garb would be a solid magical defense item. If you didn't go with those, yup, Pridwen either 5th or 6th would be functional as well, and Chaac always likes CDR.
I don't personally think you need Masa in this specific case, or Shogun's.
One big thing about Blackthorn is that it's significantly more helpful early game. The low cost (getting a cost nerf in the next patch) is great early, the health boost, power, and sustain function, all make it something that's designed for early use.
And while Gauntlet is always a strong defensive item, looking at the enemy team and who their main threats are, you're facing 2-3 gods with some basic attack function (Cern, Hou, Ravana). Instead of Gauntlet (and Regrowth), you might opt for some of the things Gulf was talking about...Nemean Lion is good reflect damage against those basic attackers, or you could consider Midgardian, which is very synergistic with your Rain effect. On the magical side, since you expect to be in the middle of most teamfights, Oni Hunter's Garb would be a solid magical defense item. If you didn't go with those, yup, Pridwen either 5th or 6th would be functional as well, and Chaac always likes CDR.
I don't personally think you need Masa in this specific case, or Shogun's.
I completely agree with all of your points on blackthorn. It is pretty much a staple for any physical tanky type I play, and usually at the 2. Although there are times I will put it at the 3 or 4. It is just a really strongly balanced overall pick that helps out early. As I was talking about above I just seemed to really have, usually, a good time with the build(or adapted build based on opponent) that I used in the match you referenced. I think that taking the training wheels off and getting the extra escapability later from regrowth would probably be more helpful to me overall at this point. It has been more of a if it's(mostly) not broke don't fix it kind of deal.
I was thinking about Midgardian Mail when the aa threats are high movement threats.
I do use masamune at times on him and like it, it just hasn't had a fit in the build concept I have been running. On a similar track I do like shifter's on him as well.
Shogun's I haven't used much but with the extra health I build through blackthorn and regrowth i'm sure that would be a situationally solid pickup.
It's no offense against anyone there, but I don't know how that Agni is account level 141 and built/played the way he did. And the eye test was that he had no awareness, so it seemed like he was maybe not familiar with the god, but that doesn't seem to be the case either.
And a lot of the time, I had to dash to kill minions before they went into the portal. It was often Silent or me doing that, otherwise they wouldn't get cleared...which slowed my god killing pace down too XD
Yes? No? Okay, fine, I was just kidding. :P
Yes? No? Okay, fine, I was just kidding. :P
i was confused as hell because i saw this on the main page and then it's in a hachiman guide comments and i saw no link anywhere to the match so it was like I guess myst randomly popped in about his match. lol. That was a fun match. Chaac is one of my Wars I am usually at least decent with. I'm at a 2.07 kda with him, which for me, is pretty decent. so, :p. I was dissapointed with my herc game with him. I have been doing pretty well with him. At a 2.77 kda after 32 matches and i am only 4 kills down from my death total, which should be remedied soon. I only ended up finishing 3/5/15 on that one. Surprisingly my best god in regards to kda is Nu Wa. After 48 matches i'm at a 3.73 kda with her. This old dog is still learning new tricks. So nya nya...
yeah, I found it from my match history. it was a fun game.