That's Not Funny - Tyr guide for solo laners (S7, 7.9)

No mention of movement speed Tyr?

Have you considered taking Blackthorn Hammer out in exchange for Hide of the Urchin or Mantle of Discord? You get 50MP5 not including base MP5 from Oni Hunter's Garb and Heartseeker. The health and minor power seems meh in comparison when you have enough mana sustain to negate the passive.

I've been trying to hammer down my Tyr solo recently, so be warned that I may not have the most perfect understanding of things, but I have some questions I think should be elucidated on, or maybe point a few issues I have with the guide (no guarantee I'm right, mostly just to understand better.)

Obviously Tyr has massive mana problems, at least in my experience playing him. he can crank out a 4 ability combo as early as lvl 2, but doing it is prohibitively expensive. With enough mana to do it though, its hard to stop Tyr from clearing a whole wave in one go, or beating the Christ out of his opponent (1-2-3-2-1 especially now that guard stance Power Cleave knocks up, for a cleaner disengage after.) I like this a lot, esp the strong combo based gameplay. And the guide recommends playing aggressive in the early game, which makes sense given how much damage he can output, and if he hits his assault 1 it's hard to stop the pain train. But all of this depends on mana, obviously. I followed the general suggestion that Gladiator's Shield is a good sustain item, but trying it out, it seems mostly for sustain on health, since Tyr's health starts 250 higher than his mana, and grows twice as fast. 2.5% max mana is painfully low without high mana. the extra health in addition to Power Cleave's nice heal was nice though, along with early cdr. But with just Gladiator's Shield and blessing I couldn't keep up at all. With blue and the shield, I could just manage to eek out enough mana for decent waveclear, but all that aggresive play mentioned was totally impossible (maybe I'm just bad, I know it's ideal to hit creeps and the enemy with waveclear combos, but I never run into people dumb enough to stand in the middle of their creeps.) If I don't get mana buff (unattentive jungler, or a super aggressive opponent who shoves me under tower) then even with Gladiator's Shield, the game is over for me. Barely any mana, and given his not so great basic attacks (no area in the progression, third hit is 1.5x but painfully slow) I lose creepscore like mad. I've been told Warrior's Blessing helps with this, but again, that requires my opponent to position themselves vulnerably, which I find very rare unless they're already stomping me. On someone's advice I tried taking Mage's Blessing instead, and it's worked out much better for me (again, I might just be really bad.) The scaling MP5 isn't huge, the same as the blue buff nerf that was tried a little bit ago, but helps me much more than the fairly large 40MP per god hit once every ten seconds, because getting it requires more aggressive play and praying for bad enemy positioning, and also because it forces me to use an ability, which means I lose net mana (potentially lots if I use Fearless) and I have to put the ability on a long CD. Also it seems to majorly discourage combo based play, since you need to wait 10 seconds for another proc, so ideal usage would be hitting the enemy with only one ability every 10 seconds. And then the evolution, 15 protections is nice early, but as soon as ~18 minutes I stop noticing any difference between having it or not, right during his midgame power trip. I know that Mage's Blessing is a more aggressive item, so feel free to call be a stupid noob and ignore this, but evolving into 10CDR is great for my build, since I have more freedom to take non-CDR items. And 10 extra damage per ability hit, early game, seems enormous for Tyr's potential 1-2-3-2-1 max combo, if you have good mana sustain to do it.

Again though, my issues here all come around to mana. With Gladiator's Shield regen (which I still think is basically only good for health), you get nothing in terms of what you spend. For example, at lvl 5, a super important level for aggressive laning, Tyr has 390 base mana. Your build reccomends Gladiator's Shield and Warrior Tabi as the first two items, or Runic Shield in the anti-healing build. None of these provide any additional base mana (or, MP5 as a sidenote) so each Gladiator's proc will heal for 9.75 mana. Enough for some minor mana cost mitigation, but only assuming you manage to catch the enemy with every ability hit. If you hit the enemy every single time you cast an ability, you need to cast 5 abilities (bare minimum 250 mana cost) to get enough back for an extra ability cast. Warrior's Blessing helps with that, but given it can only proc once per 10 agonizingly long seconds, it's like putting bandages on someone who chestbumped a mortar round.

Getting around to a point, I like Blackthorn, and I like that it's included early. It has everything Tyr could ever want, big health, 200 mana (enough for 3-4 extra casts), big mana regen buff once your mana gets critical (when you'll probably be waiting for cooldowns anyway) and CDR whenever you aren't critically low on mana (and you'll obviously be casting more abilities while not super low on mana, and waiting for cooldowns once getting below 25%.) I think it's f***ing phenomenal, and so glad to see it in the build. My problem, it's third. Tyr's mana problems are horrific early (or I'm just horrible at playing him), and harshly discourage the aggressive play you recommend. I'd like to do some more math, on just how long it takes to get mana help from Blackthorn Hammer. First you have two items before it, so you need enough gold to buy those. Skipping the blessing, to get Blackthorn as soon as possible, you could start with tier one boots and round shield, to absolutely maximize your build speed. And for more money to put toward building, only buying three potions to go along with it. You'd have 200 gold leftover to finish items. Finishing Gladiator's and boots requires 1950 additional gold. After that you can start on Blackthorn, but buying the tier one Cudgel gives no mana whatsoever. For that you need tier 2 Shillelagh which gives 100 extra mana, though no passive yet. Not much, two abilities at most, but certainly helps. Just getting that 100 mana costs an extra 1300 gold though. Finishing Blackthorn to finally solve his mana problems mostly for-good, requires a total of 2200 gold. As such, spending very conservatively with your build to absolutely maximize build speed, you need to earn 3,250 gold in lane to get your very first increase to base mana (only 100 extra from Shillelagh), depending solely on the minor mana cost mitigation you get finishing gladiator's. Solving the mana outright with Blackthorn requires earning 4,150 gold, enough to buy any tier three in the game outright, and start tier one or two on basically any other. I may just be bad at Tyr, but that seems like a massive amount of time to get the item which truly solves his mana problem. For mentioning his mana issues and having to play economically, all of the suggested builds seem half-hearted at solving it, all while the guide encourages aggressive play.

Summing the mana matter up, to make the suggested first two items viable, when I've tried, I had to make Tyr chug blue Gatorade until he begged me to kill him. Which is costly, and probably not good for my favorite boi's mental health.

Now about the skill leveling. I get that why you might max Fearless first is probably because it has good base damage and a very nice 100% scaling. And I assume that the reason you might trade off between Fearless and Power Cleave instead of rushing Fearless, is because it significantly increases Tyr's healing (especially with the 3x multiplier attached to it from multiple hits.) But this totally neglects three major issues. Firstly, the guide acknowledge Tyr has long CDs, which he does. Ranking Cleave decreases its cooldown, down from the painful 12 seconds, down to 8 seconds at max. It also gives him better healing as a big big big bonus. Decreasing the CD on Cleave, to my mind, increases his damage output as much or more, than maxing Fearless, because the reduced cooldown makes it easier to use twice or maybe three times per stance. Fearless, however, never decreases in CD. If you max it first, you end up with your best, most invested in move, having a ridiculous 15 second cooldown. GLWT. On to the second issue, mana. Ranking Cleave doesn't change its mana cost. Ranking Fearless increases it by 5 per level up to 70, not much more, but Tyr already has enough mana issues without exacerbating them. Thirdly, my issue is inconsistency. Splitting ranks between two abilities pressures you to use both in one go, ideal for a combo boy, but not for making good use of mana. Maxing only one of them means getting slightly less damage, but using half of the mana for it. Additionally on the consistency matter, one of my favorite strengths about Tyr is that, because he gets the useful part of Change Stance for free, he can rank an ability an entire level faster than his competition. Switching back and forth trades this advantage away, in return for potential benefits that I think are actually a huge penalty.

I understand that the mana issues I mentioned before can be managed by buying blue gatorade or blue gatorade with unlimited refills, but in my opinion blue gatorade is much worse than grape gatorade, which combined with Tyr's healing makes him nigh-unkillable. Yet, buying the fantastic grape gatorade is scarely an option, given the big reduction in mana restoration. (This is all in my personal experience, I could honestly just be awful, but unless there's a secret "restore 300 mana instantly" button, I can't be too far off.)

Sorry if this ended up sounding like a rant, I'm honestly just looking to understand. I might suck. I admit. But I really believe in what I'm pointing out, and most of all I just want feedback and better understanding about this fantastic boi. Better understanding would help me learn him, and see how this build ticks. As a little final point, do you think building Mage's Blessing first, then Blackthorn Hammer (maybe with boots or T1 boots in between) is a good idea? It has bonus MP5 on blessing, and finishing item two is a huge mana difference, plus being a fantastic item for Tyr. Also, having Mages and Blackthorn actually offers 10 more CDR than having Boots and Gladiators, unless casting while below 25%, which should be the minority of cases. Sure, Gladiators is cheap, but that comes at the cost of it being an item that you MUST replace later. God forbid you got Warrior's blessing in addition to it, then you'd have 3 items that must be replaced. Blah blah blah, blah blah blah, end post.

I love how you censored your f-bomb for Ganesha as a threat, but not Cupid.

I'm a bit confused about your skill leveling, Myst. Why do you wait until level 12 to put a point in Change Stance and 17 to put points in Lawbringer?

where be hydras

Comments below this are from Season 5 and above it Season 6.
(This guide needs a lot of adjustments, I'll take care of this later). Done!

I just wanted to say that, that is not Tyrs ultimate combo, but it is not a bad one. Though it looks.like you already got some good advice here in the comments.

Ideally I would swap the order of Shifters and Void Shield around in the Bruiser build.

Hey, myst.

I was inspired by your guide to start playing Tyr. He seems like a challenging yet rewarding god to play as.

I struggled at first with him, but I am starting to get more familiar and comfortable with him now. Your guide has helped too (you can check my SmiteGuru matches if you're interested).

Some feedback that I recommend would be to include Gladiator's Shield in the build. In my opinion, this is a great item for him that provides essential stats and strong sustain when chaining your abilities.

Allright:

Solo Role: No Chalice of Healing listed in your start for some reason, Runic Shield should be present as an option, way too many damage items listed as options (I would only keep Brawler's Beat Stick to be honest. Also don't get Stone of Gaia anymore, it isn't good.

Relics: List Purification Beads as a jungle - ONLY item for Tyr, and also Bracer of Undoing is bad and gets countered very easily by anti-heal.

Can also list Gladiator's Shield as a situational option.

Assassin Builds: Im just going to re-do these and give a start:

Start: Assassin's Blessing, Mace, 2 x Healing Potion.

Build 1: Warrior Tabi, Jotunn's Wrath, Transcendence, Brawler's Beat Stick, Magi's Cloak, Titan's Bane.

Build 2: Warrior Tabi, Jotunn's Wrath, Transcendence, Hydra's Lament, Mantle of Discord, Titan's Bane.

Also I really don't recommend Soul Eater on Tyr.

Bruiser build is ok but build order can be improved: Warrior Tabi, Transcendence, Jotunn's Wrath, Shifter's Shield, Ancile, Void Shield.

Alternative Build: Warrior Tabi, Jotunn's Wrath, Brawler's Beat Stick, Ancile, Masamune, Void Shield.

Another Alternative build: Warrior Tabi, Jotunn's Wrath, Transcendence, The Crusher, Magi's Cloak, Mantle of Discord.

And lastly, your introduction banner/image thing says "introduciton" and not introduction.

Hey myst. Just some constructive criticism.

For your solo build, i think there are better options than genjis guard and stone pf gaia. The solo laner should split responsibility with the support. So like bran mentioned, pestilence would be preferred to genji.

For your damage/bruiser builds, i dont know how i feel about transcendence on tyr. But i like the other options you listed.